The 4 minute mile - no difference between men and women in sport.

[HidingBehindTheWallpaper]

Sorry if this has already been posted but I notice that a female athlete has been really trying to become the first woman to achieve the 4 minute mile.
She had pacemakers, special clothes, special shoes, lots of training and support. Sadly she didn’t manage it.
Back when it was first done by a man he walked to the stadium as a warm up and had a fried breakfast on the way.

But there is no difference between men and women in sport.

Kipyegon falls short in sub-four-minute mile bid www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/articles/cy0wde9pr4yo

That was a cracking run, I was bouncing on my sofa cheering away with the crowd. Well done Faith. 😁👏💐

Same

Faith is an amazing athlete, but I can't help agreeing with a poster on another thread that making the 4-minute mile a special milestone for women is just looking at women in sport through the "small men" lens. The women's equivalent of the 4-minute mile milestone (ha!) has probably already been passed, without being celebrated.

That mixed relay proves the point every time. Justyna Święty-Ersetic is going flat-out, could not possibly run any faster, and the bloke just cruises past her like he’s taking a little afternoon stroll. FFS.

AKA cheating / having no integrity / narcissism

You make a good point, I do think however, that the 4 min mile was a special milestone at one time, and has gone down in athletic lore as such. Women striving to make it isn't just a 'small man' thing, they see it as a challenge, in a way male athletes don't nowadays, because most males can easily do it.

Nah, the darts and snooker being dismissed pisses me off too.

In snooker men have a massive advantage with arm span. In darts the board is a height to suit the average male. There are also biological differences in hand eye coordination.

But crucially, there are many, many fewer opportunities for women to enter these sports. It is changing, but we probably have 20 years to go.

My husband can nip down to the pub on his own at any point and have a throw of darts. Much harder for me to do the same.

How easy was it for Deta Headman as a black female darts player on the pub scene do we think? And yet she's had to pull out of tournaments because she is brave enough to refuse to play a man in a dress (who could happily present like this in male darts and still be less out there than Peter Wright) who is far too average to win any prize money in the men's competition.

Inapropriate language.

There were many snooker halls in the 80s that refused to have women professional snooker players play as part of exhibition tours with men.

Various “trans” athletes have tried to prove their advantages are removed, but as there is a hefty incentive to perform less well, in order to “prove” they should compete with women, there is no test that could ever prove it was true.

Now if FtM transitioners suddenly performed massively better and started to be able to compete with men, we’d believe they were genuinely trying their hardest.

But given that various men pretending to be women actually claim really stupid stuff, such as they suddenly become bad drivers when they put on womanface, they utterly cannot be trusted to truly make every effort to perform on the sports field.

As a slight aside - in the same year (1954) that Roger Bannister became the first man to run a sub 4-minute mile, Britain’s Diane Leather became the first woman to run a sub 5-minute mile.

Leather ran 4.59 but improved to 4.45 a year later. She also held the world record for 1500m. Sadly she had long retired by 1972 when women were finally allowed to run the 1500m at the Olympics.

Amazing footage. She really was giving it everything.

Notable not only that the pacers weren't putting in anywhere near the same effort, but that there were so many of them. It may have been a milestone for men in Bannister's day, but clearly not now. Need a couple of dozen reliable 4-minuters? No problem.

Thank you for the info, I'd didn't know about Diane Leather, it's also a reminder of how short a time women athletes have been allowed to compete on the world stage, only to lose it all just 50 years later because men are now allowed to identify as women. It makes me so mad, so f*ing mad, it really does.

But but but I bet none of those 2000 had been taking female hormones or wore a full face of slap and hair extensions so it proves NOTHING other than you’re all hateful Nazi bigots.

*The sort of well thought out TRA argument I expect to see on here

This is an earlier attempt by Diane Leather at breaking the 5 min mile, she missed it by 0.2s.I can’t find video of her successful attempt.

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Thank you for the link.borntobequiet.

Yeah, she's very good. Maybe if she'd had all this 'help' slightly earlier in her career [she's 31 yrs old now] she might have got a little closer. I read that she took some time out of the sport in her mid-late 20s as a result of factors which I can't imagine ever troubling a male athlete.

There's huge male advantage in both darts and snooker. Men's greater strength means they can throw or shoot faster with more control and accuracy than women.

There's male advantage in any sport except equestrianism, because the two "machines" are different. We're different biomechanically, designed to a different plan our hormones affect our bodies in ways that men will never experience - and all that is apart from the strength differential. Two different machines, doing sports designed to showcase the strengths of the male machine.
Apples and oranges.

Maybe Faith Kipyegon would have done better if she ran in bikini pants, the way a woman runner should.

(Definite sarcasm mode.)

I liked the 1954 runner in the trendy beatnik polo neck.

The point, vis a vis women’s sport, is that you’re supposed to pretend that the males who claim they are women do actually transform into women. Then you have to pretend that their bodies are just very amazing female bodies. Not that they are males who are claiming to be women, and getting to compete in women’s sport as ‘women’.

Sport is the real Achilles heel for the belief that human beings can change sex. It is so blatantly obvious that men have huge physical advantages, even when they identify as women.
If it is obvious in sport that trans women are men, then the lie ,that men who identify as women become female, is clear for everyone to see.

My DP is fully TWAW and we had an argument once about TIMs in sport, particularly Lia Thomas. His position is that when men take female hormones their male advantage disappears. He pointed to how Thomas has not won much since he's been competing with women.
I'm sure, however, that he DID win at first, and then his performance dropped. I think my DP would argue that it's because of the female hormones he's taken, but I'm sure I've read that even with female hormones there's still a male advantage, and that Thomas has admitted to not going full pelt when competing against women.
So I agree that men cannot be trusted to make every effort to perform to their best capacity in sports.
As an aside, isn't 'doing your best' (to paraphrase/simplify) part of the code of conduct in many professional sports?

Please inform your partner that Lia Thomas was a mediocre, lowly rated mens swimmer, but magically galloped up the rankings to be in the top ten women after changing his name and growing his hair. He was also getting close to breaking Katie Ledecky's record.