Women’s Rights, Trans Rights & the Line Between - Helen Joyce interview

[ProfesoraLou]

I really enjoyed this interview about trying to find a middle ground between Trans Rights and women's rights. Melody Rachel, a youth worker who says she has many trans friends, interviews Helen Joyce.
I found it balanced, very thoughtful, and (actually) very kind.

I listened to this a couple of days ago and found it very interesting and insightful.

Thank you for posting.

I have only watched the beginning so far. The way that the interviewer didn't want to say 'transwomen are men' but later finally managed to say that they were male. Bloody hell. Such brainwashing. I wanted to yell 'the truth will set you free' to the screen.

Bump

Thanks. Particularly like the phrase "the patterns and expectations" associated with being male or female as one understanding of gender. Nice and clear.

Watching in bursts. She’s so good -and her interviewer is good too.

Where is this hosted? Link please

The link is in the OP.

Thanks for sharing this OP. I think it’s one of the best summing up of the whole history and progression of the trans thing and how it just doesn’t work for women’s safety and rights. The bit at the end about how to go forward by accepting trans as a belief which is itself protected but with lawful restrictions that ensure it doesn’t harm or impose itself on others was so well explained. I loved seeing the interviewer bravely admit that she agreed with Helen and say that Helen wasn’t what you’d expect a terf to be like! So much to like about how both women communicated.

Thank you for sharing this. It was good to see a civilised conversation with people from both sides of the argument that doesn’t descend into either side sticking their fingers in their ears shouting la la la.
It was particularly refreshing to see the person from the other side of the debate seem so interested and thoughtful and I loved how she ended saying that she agreed with Helen. I think if most people stopped and thought about it, ignoring be kind and no debate, they’d agree with what the gender critical side was saying.

That was great thanks OP. So reasonable. Great interview.

Helen is correct when she says gender non conformity is generally more acceptable or tolerated in girls than boys.

Which makes the number of girls iding as trans and non binary baffling. Or at least indicates that they transition for different reasons.

I dont know how common it is, but a boy who is told often enough that hes a girl for liking x, might believe he is a girl, or can become one. But girls arent under the same pressure, it would be rare for them to be the only girl doing the boys activities.

Yet the diagnosis is the same for boys and girls?

I am obviously a bit dim but I can't see the link in the OP

Click on the big YouTube picture.

There is no link or YouTube picture for me either. Honestly…there's nothing 🤷‍♀️

You can find it by looking at Melody's YT page: https://www.youtube.com/@melodyrachel

There’s no link for me either!

I can’t see a link or picture either!

Does this work?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=AEH63BVAjv0

Perfect, thank you 👌🏻

Thanks @ProfesoraLou

Watched in one go. Will watch and takes notes a second time.

I loved seeing the interviewer bravely admit that she agreed with Helen and say that Helen wasn’t what you’d expect a terf to be like!

I wonder what she was expecting? Even if you know nothing at all about this, the most well-known terf is probably JK Rowling, so you might expect someone like her I suppose. Is Helen Joyce so different? Both women are a similar age, articulate and persuasive and sometimes quite scathing...

I haven't watched it yet, so I don't know if she explained what she thought a terf would be like.

And my take away - the impact of social media where children are educating children.

Really enjoyed that - thanks for posting. Nice to listen to a calm and considered discussion, and Helen clearly so knowledgeable. Don’t think anyone could explain it more clearly !

Very belated thanks for that, @ProfesoraLou. Watched it in one go this afternoon while hiding from the heat and deciding not even to attempt cooking. Helen Joyce is one of the clearest and best speakers I've ever heard.

I was very interested in her discussion of how Faʻafafine and Hijras are not examples of people with a trans identity. She says that in highly gender conformist societies gay men are still there and would be a problem if they were seen as men but didn't behave like men are supposed to, so they are put in another category to tidy them out of the way (that's my phrase, that's how it seems to me).

The interviewer was clearly having a lightbulb moment as they spoke and she pointed out that it's exceptionally rare in human history for any similar accommodation to be made for gender nonconforming women and girls. Helen agreed, and confirmed that they are almost always simply forced to conform.

This of course explains why here and there in the past we see women cross-dressing, changing name and adopting a male identity just so they can get some sort of freedom, access to education and training, do certain kinds of work, dress in a less restrictive way, own property, decide not to get married, etc etc. It doesn't mean they had a deep-seated feeling that they were really male! It means they knew they were human and capable of far more than their society would allow them to do.

There's a lot more in there. Really wide-ranging and fascinating stuff. (Lasts a little more than an hour.)

Didn't Helen Joyce do a Nicola Murray by reading 'erotic fiction' about pre-pubescent children on the train? Why don't you guys separate yourself from dodgy people like her, Murray, Linehan, Harrison, that bestiality GC etc etc