What is a feminist?

[Josefstalin]

I’m not sure whether I’m a feminist or not. Could someone give me the most commonly accepted definition for a “feminist” so I can figure this out?

That definition sounds reasonable, but doesn't cover the whole picture. So yes, sure, part of feminism is believing that women should have the same right to vote, to go to university, to be admitted to the same occupations as men, to have the same pay as men do.

But it ignores other important elements of feminism - the fact that women get pregnant and give birth, and may need extra protections, such as maternity leave, or guarantees of financial security because they often give up work to bring up children and become dependent on a male wage-earner.

Also the fact that women are open to sexual exploitation by men through prostitution and rape, and are often on the receiving end of male violence from family members, husbands and strangers. That is a massive issue that isn't covered by the words "have the same rights and opportunities as men". Look at the grooming gangs scandal: thousands of young girls subjected to horrific rape, torture and sometimes even murder by adult men, yet often not believed, and often prosecuted themselves for prostitution offences.

The biggest challenge for feminism is freeing women from male violence.

You probably are; everyone's a feminist these days 😂

That presumes that how men behave, their values and ways of doing things are correct.

Although is fairness this I why I dont call myself a "feminist" the idea that my aim should be to fit in a male defined world is loathsome.

But quite happy to be called a women's liberationist.

I always find it hilarious when people say there's a natural division of labour; women have the babies and men make civilisation. Men say they are needed to protect women and children and to build civilisation; but they don't think about women's needs or safety (see the example of the footbridge posted by DustyWindowsills on page 1). They just don't see women as human. They have to be forced to include us.
They claim women can't use machinery or tools because they are made for people of their size and strength. It doesn't occur to them that if women build machinery and tools we'd build them to fit us.
They talk about women 'having babies' as if we just lie down and push one out like animals, but are entirely ignorant about the process of teaching language and social skills to them. And what else is civilisation, but the passing on of knowledge and resources to the next generation?

Women’s Liberationist is strongly associated with the second-wave feminist movement of the 1960s and 70s, focusing on issues such as reproductive rights, workplace inequality, and the objectification of women.
While as far as I can see from this thread a feminist is a broader term that encompasses multiple strands of thought eg liberal feminism, radical feminism, and intersectional feminism
I don’t like liberal feminism, I hate intersectional feminism and I think radical feminism is mad. I’m a women’s liberationist!

Women's Liberation may have started in the 1970 and was far broader than your discription as it was based on local consciousness raising so that women's engagement on issues came from building networks of shared experiences and goals. This would vary depending on whether the group was formed based on locality, or race or whatever.

And through having a network of small groups each being active there was no issue of central control, or the need for a "leader" to tell anyone what to say or think.

That's why it was a movement.

The reason it didn't continue, and women's liberation got watered down to individualistic feminism, was the massive male back lash against it. Not forgetting third wave feminism that was always so cross that women older than them had achived anything, that they put a huge amount of energy into undermining.

And wasa far broader based movement than FWR which thanks to MNHQ splitting it, is increasingly a single issue forum.

So again buying into the miss messaging from MSM seems to be part of your problem.

And again you miss the point that a broad based non hierarchal movement based on action, had more impact on women's lives. Because by having the structure of small groups, each women felt equal to being part.

Because women were actively engaged in their community or area of special interest.

The main reason why a grassroots activist movement couldn't happen now is that for most whether you call it Women's Liberation or feminist, is now just a virtual engagement.

Just to add again, WLM was far broader as it contained, radical feminists, socialist feminists, lesbian separatist, support groups for mothers, campaign groups, arts groups, and much more. Networks for Women's Liberationist working is common areas of work, whether teaching or whatever, thereby creating a based from which to agitate for change in their area of work.

Seriously, you comments are so strange, I would be really interested to know where you get your misconceptions from.

Welcome to the team. 👍

Thanks @IwantToRetire i don’t have any angle here. My information is , as you say, garnered from msm. I prefer the term women’s liberation to feminism as I associate feminism with one of the 3 feminisms I listed: liberal, intersectional and radical. I know there are others , Marxist I think? But none of them do it for me.

Also sorry everyone for my terrible name. I made it on a whim when I tried lots of different names changes. I plan to change again as soon as this thread dies as its terrible name.

Attaining those things means dismantling the patriarchy.

I don’t think it does @Mulberryblackbird

How do you achieve the things in @Tygertiger 's list without dismantling the patriarchy?

I'm not convinced that they ever will be achieved but we have to keep fighting for them, and we will get ever closer. The one thing we must never stop fighting for is single sex spaces because this is the one thing the patriarchy needs us to give up in order to stop us from organising to assess how close we are to achieving the rest, and is the top tactic to make sure that any advances are temporary and limited.

Why? How do you think they’ll be achieved?

A colleague told me in one of my jobs that I was (quote) 'working like a man'. I thought that was an extremely depressing statement because a) it was meant as a compliment, which meant that what 'a man' does was still held in their minds as the quality benchmark and b) I was working crazy stupid hours that no employee should be expected to do, man or woman. So 'working like a man' was perpetuating basic exploitation...

@StandFirm I've also been told that I was working like a man. In my case it was because I wasn't taking on the invisible administrative tasks that make a project run more smoothly but don't get any credit. It was also meant as a compliment!

Oh dear...

Do you want to liberate women from patriarchy? If so you are a feminist.

Apparently @Josefstalin wants to liberate women, but not smash the patriarchy.

I’m not really clear on what she thinks she’s liberating women from, if it isn’t the patriarchy. Maybe she could let us know.

It may help OP to reflect that Patriarchy is bad for men too. You aren’t being asked to choose women at the expense of men (potentially feeling that’s unfair- though arguably it’s redressing the balance or perfectly reasonable for women to prioritise women).
Patriarchy preserves power structures that prioritise certain types of men over everyone else. It creates an unhealthy expectation on men too.

Working like a man as a compliment?! In my sector that tends to look like turning up, putting in far more hours than needed because you think it looks impressive and / or you don't have the skills and experience to get the job done in a sensible amount of time, messing things up because you completely lack the planning and communication skills to do the job well (because you were given the top job on a plate without having to develop those skills first) and taking all the credit whilst the team do all the work. No thank you.

I used to add an extra line to that song 'One man went to mow' when singing it with my kids ... 'One woman went to mow, went to mow a meadow. She did the job properly so, no one else had to mow the meadow' 😂

Decades ago I was told I was working like a man by a female colleague, because I was willing to do all the tasks in the department, some of which involved manual handling, although not of the really heavy kind.
My female colleagues were quite happy to sit back and leave the jobs they didn't want to do to their male colleagues, so it was not a compliment it was an insult because they felt my actions shown them up, which it did.
I ignored them and carried on doing what I thought of as my fair share of the work, I also wasn't going to allow myself to be limited by someone else deciding what I could and could not do, especially a women.
My activism has only ever been this 'practice what you preach' type, but sometimes equality means doing your fair share of the work.

One time in the job I had when I was in my mid-late 20s, the department (roughly 10 people split reasonable equally men & women though all the more senior roles were male) had some really good results and the boss decided we should all go to the pub to celebrate and the first round would be on him. When I asked for a pint of beer, he started calling me "a man" and it definitely wasn't in a complimentary way - women are supposed to be too delicate to manage a full size pint glass after all.

I agree. But sadly I don't ever see an end to male violence. I believe they have a predisposition to it which all the education or whatever model one cares to employ, will not eradicate. Bear in mind that male violence and violation of the innocent doesn't just stop at women. They are far more likely to kill and maim animals for fun for example.

As a naive 19-year-old student at university, I used to hang out with male friends. (I had been to a girls' school. Male company was new and exciting.) They would compliment me on my ability to down a pint. I was "one of the lads". It took me a few months to realise that their main aim was to get me drunk quickly so that they could get me into bed. I was an idiot.

No, you were young, naive, and probably crediting them with better moral standards than they actually had.