What is a feminist?

[Josefstalin]

I’m not sure whether I’m a feminist or not. Could someone give me the most commonly accepted definition for a “feminist” so I can figure this out?

I think then that most people on here would disagree that you are a feminist then.

Because what women are fighting for is not to be able to “work like men” but to be able to (eg) have bank accounts on their own (UK, 1975), or be able to stand in a court of law and say that their husband had raped them (UK 1991). These things (women not having bank accounts, husbands having the right to force sex on their wives) didn’t come about because of a nice happy division of labour because men are stronger and women are more nurturing. They came about because society treats women as less (less important, less believable, less necessary) than men.

Actually, @Josefstalin, maybe you might get something from the book “Invisible Women” by Caroline Criado Perez. The tagline is: “Exposing data bias in a world designed for men.”

@Josefstalin why do you think it's inoperable to design a world that also works for women. To take women into account for medical issues? To not just use male as the default human?

It's males being the default which makes women less than.

There are so many different things which mean women are treated as less than

Edited for spelling

Everyone should read that book. I have given copies to so many people since it came out.

Although my best friend said it did cause some marital disharmony because she kept saying “And another thing!” about so many of examples in the book that her husband and daughters threatened to lock it away.

I don't think that 'working like men" has been a significant part of feminism.When it came to work it was more about rights to the same pay for the same job and maternity leave and also access to certain types of job or levels of seniority rather than being prevented from doing them by expectations or rules.

I think its easy to forget how high female employment rates have generally been.

Have a read of the New Testament, @Josefstalin, especially what Paul has to say on the subject of women (especially those pesky widows) and then look at the control the church has had in our society for over 1,000 years, and then tell me that’s “natural” and isn’t structural. Christianity is, by definition, a patriarchal religion. Our culture, our institutions etc are underpinned by Christianity.

If anyone us interested ' technology is not neutral' by Stephanie hare is about ethics in AI and exiting technology and how it already has bias in its structure. It isn't just about women, it includes race etc.

I've heard her speak. Very interesting.

I think feminism is about fighting for the right's and protections of females, otherwise known as women, it's about campaigning to realign society so women are empowered to raise to the same potential as the males, otherwise known as men.
I do think it's still about fighting the patriarchy, because men won't allow women to succeed, or reach their potential, because they think it reduces them in someway.
Unfortunately I think the word feminism has been devalued to the point where it's now a mockery, it is no longer about the above, which is why I've switched back to Women's Lib.

I think your idea that it’s natural that we have the society we have is flawed

we are discovering more and more often how in historic times bones that were assumed male - because of the warrier trappings for example - turn out to be female

and in current times , there are societies where although they have fixed roles for example men hunt and women care for the babies - the resulting society isn’t sexist in that women have the same rights at the table as men and women are seen as the ones keeping the society alive so the power balance is very different - men provide the extras only. Not core

I mean yes if you want to solve every problem by violence then men will win every time - but that’s hardly a thing to be proud of is it! Bloody shameful I would say

Thank you @TheywontletmehavethenameIwant i think women’s lib is a great point

In the fifties, women could still be made to leave their jobs if they got married, on the grounds that their husband would then support them. I don't know when that was stopped. In a money-based economy, being denied direct access to money except by somebody else's grace and favour is a serious equality issue.

I am aware of that, but that's what was trying to describe by access to specific types of work. I dont think I'm explaining it well, but my nan for instance, no one asked her to leave her factory cleaning job which was hard physical work, but my granny was asked to leave her nice office work.

That's a really good question. Like so many words, the word feminist has had it's original meaning distorted beyond reason. It is now attributed to anyone whose views range from 'women should have the same rights as men' to rabid, man-hating 'men should have a curfew' types.

For this reason i no longer really use it as a descriptor or identity myself with it at all.

To suggest that women having the right to work and have careers was wrong is so very misogynistic.

That would depend on what you think Women's Liberation is about. I think it's about liberating women from domestic servitude, from being dependant on men financially, from having men decide what a women is, what they can and cannot say, can and cannot wear.

In order to achieve that we need a fair and equal society, where women can pursue a career, where they can contribute to the accumulated knowledge of humankind, have a say in how the country is run, in short they can have all the advantages and opportunities that men have.

OP, can I ask you why you decided to name yourself after a man who was responsible for millions of deaths through forced labor camps, mass executions and man-made famines? I think that period of soviet Russia is also something you should educate yourself on.

I suspect the explanation of the difference is that there was no point in chucking women out of jobs that a man wouldn't want to do.

I always read posts like this waiting to discover that they’re not being put here in good faith, and you haven’t disappointed me. You did well at the beginning with the wide eyed ‘oh please help me to understand if I’m a feminist’, and then you couldn’t help yourself, you have people’s attention and you introduce the nonsense that the oppression of women is nothing to do with misogyny or the patriarchy, and that feminism has been detrimental to women. In short, women are responsible for their own oppression, why can’t we just follow the natural order of things and stick to having babies. You didn’t even bother to be original, how boringly predictable and pathetic.

First of all you are not going to find the answer in a book!

Nobody own's feminism or has copyright on it.

It will be down to you.

Do you feel you are disadvantage by being a woman in whatever part of society you live in?

If yes, and you think it is unfair that you are, then you are a feminist.

But as mentioned up thread it is far more complicated than that, because having recognised that what would make the world (men) change so you did not experience disadvantage?

It could be said that "feminism" it accepting the world as men have made it, but that somehow allowances should be made to that women can function equally in that world.

Or if you believe in women's liberation than you dont aspire to be like men, but know that men as a sex class oppress women as a sex class so that in fighting for women's rights you are also attacking or wanting men to lose their privilege.

And this is without even getting onto the basic problem for women that is male violence.

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them. Margaret Atwood.

This illustrates the profound difference for women living in a male dominated world.

The Demands of the Women’s Liberation Movement
Women have the Right to a Self Defined Sexuality and:

1. Equal Pay
2. Equal Educational and Job Opportunities
3. Free Contraception and Abortion on Demand
4. Free 24-hour Nurseries
5. Legal and Financial Independence for All Women
6. An End to Discrimination Against Lesbians.
7. Freedom for all women from intimidation by the threat or use of violence or sexual coercion regardless of marital status; and an end to the laws, assumptions and institutions which perpetuate male dominance and aggression to women.

feminist movement to have us working like men

The feminist movement, was never about this.

This is what MSM ie man have been telling you.

This is because men wont change.

Feminism isn't about women becoming a copy of men.

Why women haven't achieved equality is because men wont change.

A feminist is someone who believes in the liberation of women.

Here’s a simple easy to remember definition.
**
A feminist is a person who believes in equal social, economic, and political rights for women.

As a young woman I used to think this was the description of a normal person (ie. Someone who thinks women and men should be treated equally) ). I’m older now, and sadly, it’s the definition of ‘a feminist’.

Feminism is the belief in fairness and equality for female people as measured against the opportunities, rights and treatment afforded to male people.

Egalitarianism is the belief in fairness and equality for all. Which is lovely, but it has generally been found that the less focussed a campaign is, the less effective it is in producing meaningful outcomes.

Feminists have found it more effective to focus on the rights of female people only. That includes female people of all races and gender identities, but doesn’t include male people who think they are female, or prefer to wear women’s clothes, or take female hormones or have plastic surgery to appear more female.

The OED definition of Feminism is "having or based on the belief that women should have the same rights and opportunities as men."

The Cambridge and Merriam-Webster have almost identical definitions too. My understanding concurs with them. Feminism is a belief that women should have equal rights with men socially, politically, legally and financially. Feminist movements are (or should be) aimed at furthering this.