The socially-acceptable misogyny towards porn “stars”, such as Bonnie Blue

[TERFlawnBOY]

The Bonnie Blue/ Lily Philips discourse has highlighted that it’s still perfectly acceptable, even applauded, to refer to women as “sluts”, “whores” etc. It is also acceptable to witch hunt them for being “bad”, I.e. liking sex.

I’m no fan of these women or their industry, but I do still think we should be calling out the misogyny towards them, right?

Yes, I agree with this. If you buy in to the ideological claims of sex positivity, what they are doing should be just fine. But clearly it's not.

I don't like the slut shaming language. However, I am hesitant to say that it is wrong to say that some sexual behaviours can be a serious problem. We can all see that the men in these scenarios have beliefs and behaviours that are social negative and bad for women. But I think some women can also have beliefs and behaviours around sex that it is ok to look down on, because they are damaging, sexist, etc. It's not good for society to think this stuff is just ok.

I judge them totally - no one is forcing them into this

Are you really trying to claim that women in porn are just women who “like sex”?

consent is not something that can be purchased with money.

This is not about liking sex. It’s not that unusual for women to like sex that it requires a name. See also “sex positive” it’s just an excuse for people to be exhibitionist about it. This is more about the rise of instant free porn at the tap of a screen, no illusion of quality control anymore just getting the most attention in the loudest and most extreme ways, and what that translates to is this weird one-upmanship, the more men the better, not an actual female orgasm in sight. Women who like sex (ie most women) don’t have sex like this, this how women who like lots of money and attention have sex. BB is more misogynistic than most, she actually seems to hate other women quite passionately.

@TempestTost This nails what I came on to say. This is sheer depravity. No doubt certain groups of people have always behaved like this behind doors, but it's so open and readily available to see now and that can only do harm to our young people.

Boys are being given the message that it's normal to treat women like that, that they are really 'up for it', and it gives girls the message that there is no opt out clause.

Everyone these days (and yes I am old) get so tied up in not wanting to shame people, well in this case we bloody well should be shaming people. What's wrong with calling out terrible behaviour, not bending over backwards to defend these awful choices, ignoring the fact of how much harm they can do to totally innocent young people.

This is self harm more than sex.

Seeing how much my ability to compartmentalise has degraded with perimenopause, I feel sorry for what she'll remember when she gets older.

It also explains why mum is the pimp instead of taking part in the "fun".

And I agree with those who say this is not sex.

Nothing good can come out of this and the money earned will never repair the damage done.

Sorry but she is a whore! 😂 Would you be ok if your daughter did this?

Edited as the trans rumour does appear to have been debunked, so far as any such rumours can be. Either way, she’s disgusting as are all the men using her.

Lots of socially negative behaviours are probably, to some extent, self harm.

I'm not convinced that removing stigma from the people engaging in the activities is in fact helpful. It's not helpful to society, but tbh I don't think it's helpful to the people doing it.

In my work I deal regularly with people who are addicts, and a lot engage in socially negative behaviours. There is a real push by some, including some working with them regularly, to "remove stigma" because these things are just a result of the addiction or are actually self harm which a lot of addiction is.

My observation is that does very little for the people who are addicted. They seem to have to go even farther before they reach a point where they feel the need to make choices, and it also seems to almost dehumanize them. Plus you end up with a community full of used needles, kids who can't play outside, businesses locked, and all the rest.

If this sexual behaviour is self harm, saying it's just self-expression is playing into that, imo.

Shame can be a useful emotion that prevents people from doing things that will harm them.

This.

Well, I don't at all agree that its 'self expression'. It's destructive self harm, and someone should make an intervention. But yes, agree that any sugar coating or tacit acceptance of it doesn't help - conversely, I doubt that calling these women names or deriding them does, either.

I did think of hearing how alcoholics have to 'bottom out' before they can begin to recover, although I don't know if that theory is universally accepted.

I judge everyone involved. BB, the mother, the men, the team who filmed it and marketed it, the media who reported on it.

Everyone made a choice and took their cut and everyone is the worse for it.

I do wonder at people who attack these women with names etc, though. Why the anger, where does that come from? All I see is an incredibly damaged woman in need of help. Those are honest questions, btw. Those who've called her a 'whore' and a 'slut', can you articulate why you are disgusted/angry?

@Cerialkiller I think the same too - I don’t go around calling them names or commenting as such but yes I do judge - as you say I judge all the others involved in this squalid shitshow too

Squalid is exactly the right word. I have try not to think about it all too much or it's too disturbing.

@Cerialkiller as I said below- in neither case was it ‘forced’- so yep , I judge them - we nearly all judge about certain things if we are honest with ourselves -

Not ‘forced’. But I would be very very surprised these women haven’t experienced abuse in childhood. Statistically, they will have. Replaying trauma might not be forced but it certainly isn’t a free, enthusiastic choice.

I can't bring myself to read about this stuff beyond the basic headlines, because it's just off-the-scale sordid and depraved. I don't know how anyone can stand to even read about it, let alone watch videos of it. These women are inflicting serious, lifelong emotional damage on themselves for the sake of money and other sickos are enabling it. These women are normalising their abuse and the abuse of other women, they are making that abuse permissible, it is all sick. They need mental health and trauma support not more publicity.

No I know and agree. Either someone can make their own choices or they can't. I suppose I'm sad for her too that this is what she feels she has to do for....what, money?attention?

I can't relate to any of it, struggling to understand the mentality which makes me wonder if I'm just being patronising towards another adult doing what they want.

@Cerialkiller yep , I can’t get my head around it either -

“Either someone can make their own choices, or they can’t”. I suppose if there is no nuance at all, no grey areas, no subtle psychology, no genetics, nurture, trauma or other things that push and pull us in life.

I remember chatting to a lovely woman who had almost exactly the same birth experience as I had. Almost exactly except for one thing. She heard someone say, “the baby is in trouble” or some variation of that. I believed DD was completely fine (I had a horrible time!). She had PTSD from her experience, I didn’t. One sentence at the wrong time.

If you think your choices wouldn’t be different if you were different, you’re simply wrong. We are all a mixture of our bodies, our minds and our experiences. I’ve been in a room with trauma-impacted young women. Half dress like boys, half like street sex workers. That is a choice, right? Or is it really? Has some experience pushed them either to identify out of their trauma, or self-harm embracing it?

I also worked in alcohol and drug treatment. Most people there had childhood trauma, about half had been sexually abused. Drinking is a choice though, you think?

Choice is sometimes easy, and it’s sometimes impossibly hard. Be thankful you didn’t find that out the hard way, I know I’m thankful.

What these women are doing has nothing to do with 'liking sex'.

It is all about making money, getting publicity and gaining followers/subscribers.

It is deeply concerning and should absolutely be condemned.

They are not feminist icons, they are troubled and disturbed young women who are damaging their mind and body.

I don't like or approve of what she does at all but I agree that the actual hate she gets is really unpleasant and unnecessary, says more about the nasty pieces of work dishing it out than it does her.