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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The ministry on Tuesday removed all references to “diversity staff networks” based on characteristics - take an “evidence-based approach” to equality

15 replies

IwantToRetire · 17/06/2025 20:53

The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) has scrubbed all mention of LGBT, gender and race from its diversity policy.

Prior to being updated, the page advertised an array of diversity networks for civil servants based on characteristics including “race, disability, gender, LGBTQI, faith, carers, job sharers, menopause, EU nationals, and parents”.

The new policy says the department now aims to hire the “widest possible range of geographical, social and career backgrounds”. It also states that officials are focused on “having the best people working in MoJ”, rather than increasing diversity.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/17/ministry-of-justice-scraps-public-support-lgbt-diversity/

Can be read in full at https://archive.is/BwjWp

OP posts:
socialdilemmawhattodo · 17/06/2025 20:59

The mention at the end of removal of references to flexible working is not great. I think often women benefit more from flexible working arrangements.

IwantToRetire · 17/06/2025 21:04

Sorry for misleading thread title.

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 17/06/2025 21:08

socialdilemmawhattodo · 17/06/2025 20:59

The mention at the end of removal of references to flexible working is not great. I think often women benefit more from flexible working arrangements.

I haven't had time to re-read it and was concerned that in for instance getting rid of nonsense lik signing up to become a diversity champion with Stonewall, they have got rid of perfectly valid networks or support group.

ie that groups that allow those with similar needs to be able to put them forward to an employer seems not only reasonable, but that employers would recognise that it helps them achieve a better work place for a range of people.

But as usual Stonewall type demands of everyone must agree with us, aren't about equality. They are about creating a hierarchy of who should be listened to, and by implication who should be ignored.

And we know this is what has and still is happening to women in workplaces.

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Harassedevictee · 18/06/2025 07:04

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.

I personally think EDI has needed to evolve, it’s about integration into policies and practices rather than flag waving and campaigning.

Flexible working is a great example of a policy that should be integrated and accepted as the norm.

NumberTheory · 18/06/2025 08:13

I quite like a commitment to hiring diversity on the basis of social background (and to a lesser extent, geography). I think that’s a characteristic that has a huge impact on life out comes a career progression but is ignored in law and rarely given any notice.

But it’s concerning that an organization supposedly committed to justice does not appear to recognize the importance of diverse voices within its staff. There has been plenty of evidence of how organizations with expertise but narrow life views fail to understand the impacts of their actions on the wider public.

it may be that they are just taking time to find out what is effective, though (but the ‘best person for the job rhetoric is not encouraging). I think there is a danger in assuming the sorts of activities that are typically undertaken in the name of diversity actually do the best job.

Imnobody4 · 18/06/2025 08:56

Flexible working is still mentioned in Working for us section.

This is just their headline statement and is very welcome.
It doesn't mention staff networks as far as I can see so they may still exist.

Imnobody4 · 18/06/2025 09:07

Also in the usual recruitment statement
The Ministry of Justice is an equal opportunities employer. We welcome applications from all suitably qualified persons regardless of their:
All the usual list then adds;

'any other irrelevant attribute' 🤣

VagueVogue · 18/06/2025 09:53

I welcome this. In theory it was a great idea, in practice it means most of us have worked with a few total duds who added to our workload who were hired to fill diversity targets and then weaponised their protected characteristic every time they were criticised.

I want the world of work totally divorced from cheerleading for diversity. I work in banking. Lgbt people, disabled people, and people of other races and ethnicities want exactly what everyone else wants from their bank- a swift and efficient service. My employer encouraging my attendance at pride weekend absolutely oversteps their remit in the same way their encouraging my attendance at church would. They buy my labour for a set time. They don't get to tell me what to think, what causes to support or where I should spend my leisure time.

I'd like to see an end to prayer rooms in secular spaces too. Worship on your own time.

IwantToRetire · 18/06/2025 17:22

Harassedevictee · 18/06/2025 07:04

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.

I personally think EDI has needed to evolve, it’s about integration into policies and practices rather than flag waving and campaigning.

Flexible working is a great example of a policy that should be integrated and accepted as the norm.

I think that just illustrates what has gone wrong.

Having flexible working or job shares because someone cant take on a 40 hour week, seems not just reasonable but a positive way to help people be in work.

And obviously I believe in maternity leave, even if it can impact on those still in work.

Just as workplaces should be able to make adaptations so that someone with a disability can more easily do their work.

But none of this means employers than have the right to tell all employees they must support this group, when they dont do that for any other group.

Sadly, this is another example of how many workplaces have been Stonewalled and those taken in dont seem to be aware that they have.

I wonder if the growth of SEENs has helped organisation realise they went too far?

OP posts:
TheSmallAssassin · 18/06/2025 17:43

VagueVogue · 18/06/2025 09:53

I welcome this. In theory it was a great idea, in practice it means most of us have worked with a few total duds who added to our workload who were hired to fill diversity targets and then weaponised their protected characteristic every time they were criticised.

I want the world of work totally divorced from cheerleading for diversity. I work in banking. Lgbt people, disabled people, and people of other races and ethnicities want exactly what everyone else wants from their bank- a swift and efficient service. My employer encouraging my attendance at pride weekend absolutely oversteps their remit in the same way their encouraging my attendance at church would. They buy my labour for a set time. They don't get to tell me what to think, what causes to support or where I should spend my leisure time.

I'd like to see an end to prayer rooms in secular spaces too. Worship on your own time.

I think taking a five minute break for praying is fine, as is going for a cup of tea, chatting with a colleague, having a fag/vape break. Having a regular 5 minute walk and screen break is really beneficial to health if you have a sedentary job.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 18/06/2025 17:43

It's almost as if once the MoJ realised they might have to mention a SEEN network as well they just decided to scrap the whole thing.

IwantToRetire · 18/06/2025 17:49

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 18/06/2025 17:43

It's almost as if once the MoJ realised they might have to mention a SEEN network as well they just decided to scrap the whole thing.

Shock
OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/06/2025 18:15

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 18/06/2025 17:43

It's almost as if once the MoJ realised they might have to mention a SEEN network as well they just decided to scrap the whole thing.

Political neutrality is such a bitch 😂

It was good to read and if this is finally happening across the civil service then that's good progress.

VagueVogue · 18/06/2025 19:11

TheSmallAssassin · 18/06/2025 17:43

I think taking a five minute break for praying is fine, as is going for a cup of tea, chatting with a colleague, having a fag/vape break. Having a regular 5 minute walk and screen break is really beneficial to health if you have a sedentary job.

I take it you've not worked in a highly monitored environment like a call centre or factory then. Even toilet breaks are monitored. Nobody gets any additional ring fenced break for smoking/calling a friend/having a moment- they do for prayers though. That's not equal treatment, it's special treatment. I'm not arguing that taking a break is good. Just that a person of faith isn't entitled to any more than anyone else.

LlynTegid · 18/06/2025 19:15

I did laugh at 'the best possible people at the MoJ' given it has been headed by Chris Grayling, Dominic Raab and Liz Truss at various times.

Agree with the lack of reference to flexible working.

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