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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Keir Starmer to launch grooming gangs inquiry that will make witnesses testify

143 replies

IwantToRetire · 15/06/2025 01:14

Keir Starmer has confirmed that there will be a statutory inquiry into grooming gangs which means it will have the power to compel witnesses to testify and provide documents

The Prime Minister, who has previously resisted calls for another probe, said it was now "the right thing to do". And he confirmed it would be a statutory inquiry, which means it will have legal powers to compel witnesses to testify and produce documents. It comes as the findings of Baroness Dame Louise Casey's rapid audit into group-based child exploitation and abuse are due to be announced next week.

Mr Starmer said: "I have never said we should not look again at any issue. I have wanted to be assured that on the question of any inquiry. That's why I asked Louise Casey who I hugely respect to do an audit.

"Her position when she started the audit was that there was not a real need for a national inquiry over and above what was going on. She has looked at the material she has looked at and she has come to the view that there should be a national inquiry on the basis of what she has seen."

The PM added: "I have read every single word of her report and I am going to accept her recommendation. That is the right thing to do on the basis of what she has put in her audit.

"I asked her to do that job to double check on this; she has done that job for me and having read her report, I respect her in any event. I shall now implement her recommendations." According to a leak of Baroness Casey's review, it is said to state some victims were "institutionally ignored for fear of racism."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/keir-starmer-says-grooming-gangs-35393814

Keir Starmer to launch grooming gangs inquiry that will make witnesses testify

Keir Starmer has confirmed that there will be a statutory inquiry into grooming gangs which means it will have the power to compel witnesses to testify and provide documents

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/keir-starmer-says-grooming-gangs-35393814

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
5MinuteArgument · 17/06/2025 22:17

IwantToRetire · 17/06/2025 21:18

And that's something missed out by the people who deny that there's any ethnoreligious aspect to the scandal.

The fact is that the common factor is poor white girls with little or no support make up the largest number of victims.

And this is the same whether the exploiters are white or Pakistani or whatever.

Perhaps focusing on the women and girls who should be the focus of concern would be a better approach that somehow implying only some men exploit young women living on the margins.

The fact that some cities have different cultural make up doesn't change who it is that men of all race, class or religion target.

But ethnicity and religion were the main reasons for the cover-up. Many of the people who ignored or tried to suppress the grooming gangs issue were social workers and Labour councillors and Labour politicians, with a left wing mindset.

I've worked in the public sector and any accusation of racism could end your career so people would much rather throw a bunch if white girls under the bus than run the risk of being called racist. The Tories were just as bad. But Casey has said that ethnicity and religion has paid a big part in the scandal, especially in the cover-up.

OneAmberFinch · 17/06/2025 22:56

I agree that to the extent there's a political aspect to this, it seems to be primarily at a local level. People over focus on Westminster MPs. I think there should be a lot more scrutiny on local councillors.

Since January I've been on-and-off following Oldham council since they were in the news. "The council" as a whole gets a lot of IMO undeserved credit for blowing the whistle when it was clearly resisted by Labour and continued to even after the hubbub this January. I've been involved in local politics though and the national platform is often less important than local history, alliances and personalities.

I don't know the rules on commenting about specific local councillors but it has been revealing to me to follow one council in depth and see who is consistently voting against actions, or water down or censor or limit scope etc.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/06/2025 23:06

5MinuteArgument · 17/06/2025 22:17

But ethnicity and religion were the main reasons for the cover-up. Many of the people who ignored or tried to suppress the grooming gangs issue were social workers and Labour councillors and Labour politicians, with a left wing mindset.

I've worked in the public sector and any accusation of racism could end your career so people would much rather throw a bunch if white girls under the bus than run the risk of being called racist. The Tories were just as bad. But Casey has said that ethnicity and religion has paid a big part in the scandal, especially in the cover-up.

Exactly. Listen to Baroness Casey who has experience in this area. Listen to Maggie Oliver. There were multiple factors, of which I believe misogyny and class issues the greatest. But culture, and the uncomfortable nature of tackling it, and the ability to use that as a fig leaf to do nothing, definitely played a part.

SionnachRuadh · 17/06/2025 23:08

It's a lesser issue, but sometimes I think of those adverts about street harassment, you know, where Sadiq Khan wants men to say "maaate" when faced with bad behaviour from their friends.

Watch three or four of them back to back. What do you notice?

What you notice is that invariably they are showing you an ethnic minority woman being harassed by a white man.

I know why they're doing that. I even have sympathy for why they're doing that. Because you don't want to spread negative stereotypes about minority communities.

But at a certain point it starts to feel like the authorities are gaslighting you, and Sadiq Khan is making Tommy Robinson's point for him.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/06/2025 23:54

I agree, @SionnachRuadh and people are fed up of it.

Burntt · 18/06/2025 00:06

Good. Just don’t stop after the enquiry make this abuse stop. Yes have those guilty of cover up face what they did but we need to change things to protect these vulnerable girls.

and will they investigate area where grooming gangs haven’t been unearthed? Because I’m certain my local town has one but I’ve never seen it in the news. Teachers at school never took things seriously because they didn’t want to be racist. Told me not to be racist in fact. Where did these teen boys get their attitude? I was a vulnerable teen. Groped by taxi drivers etc never more because I said no to all invites and was scared. I have a friend raped by a taxi driver. These are taxi drivers who the LA sourced to take vulnerable teens to therapy and education or care provision. If me and my friend had these experiences I’m sure there are many more in my area. I never went police because nothing really happened to me but my friend did and was dismissed etc as you see in the news that breaks on these gangs. It’s a much much bigger problem than we really know. It needs dealing with because until it is I won’t trust anyone from that religion and ethnic group or let them around my dd without me. It’s made me Islamaphobic with also isn’t right but it’s my only option based on my loved experience. If I knew things would be taken seriously I could trust the state and not assume this group of men act with carte blanche

OneAmberFinch · 18/06/2025 00:48

@SionnachRuadh I often think about being the person in the advertising agency who would like to push back against it, and what they'd even say!

I imagine in many cases, someone automatically puts up the white man / minority woman example, and then it almost feels churlish or like you're making a real point about it. Everyone's agreeing and moving on and you're the one holding it up to litigate your "weird obsession with race". I think even if you tried to bring in actual crime statistics you'd probably come off even more "obsessed". Like - I'm not very shy about sharing my opinions on this on Mumsnet, but I literally cannot even imagine having that conversation at my workplace at all, and it's not even particularly woke/progressive/liberal, just a standard corporate workplace.

I think my point is: many British people have tried very hard to be pointedly blind to race and ethnicity, but are realising through high-profile cases like this that there are some times where it means you lose predictive power and are blind to particular patterns of corruption which fall along ethnic lines. So we're stumbling through, trying to figure out the changing societal consensus on when it's appropriate to discuss ethnicity - which seems to no longer be "never, unless positively" but obviously most normal people don't want to go full white English nationalist.

WarriorN · 18/06/2025 06:19

SionnachRuadh · 17/06/2025 21:35

I mean I hesitate to cite the literal rape defenders of the SWP, but: Starmer’s ‘grooming gangs’ inquiry won’t bring justice to victims

I think the political left has a real problem with this. I was at a meeting not too long ago where it was confidently stated from the platform that grooming gangs were a moral panic and 95% of sex offences are committed by white men.

Even if that statistic were true, and not the made up bollocks that I assume it to be, that doesn't say anything about the actual offences for which men have been sent to prison.

The victims of Rotherham and Oldham and Telford - not to mention places like Bradford where there still hasn't been a proper inquiry - are still being gaslit. Because the mass rape and torture of young girls is bad, but it's not as bad as Tommy Robinson talking about it.

People wonder why Reform are dominating polls in the Red Wall. I don't think they understand just how hated Labour are in places like Rotherham.

someone who I know who worked in women’s refuges said that stats were around rates of offences within certain demographics. Over all there may well be more white offenders but the rate is higher amongst this specific demographic. And it is important to know this, both for the victims and future offending, but also clarity for safeguarding. As a teacher we are taught to be aware of indications a girl may be at risk of fgm and the demographic where that is more likely. Rates of sexual abuse are highest amongst immediate family members of any demographic. These are all risk factors that must be considered within the context of safeguarding. And then correct rigorous procedures should be followed.

that just didn’t happen. Those were the failures that need to be examined so it doesn’t happen again.

5MinuteArgument · 18/06/2025 08:10

Lots of great points on this thread.

Hopefully honest debate will help to protect vulnerable people going forward as those in positions of responsibility will feel less squeamish and fearful about calling out abuse when it happens.

The politicians have realised that gaslighting and sweeping things under the carpet won't wash anymore.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 19/06/2025 08:44

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/06/2025 23:06

Exactly. Listen to Baroness Casey who has experience in this area. Listen to Maggie Oliver. There were multiple factors, of which I believe misogyny and class issues the greatest. But culture, and the uncomfortable nature of tackling it, and the ability to use that as a fig leaf to do nothing, definitely played a part.

I agree.

Also, something that I do not think has been mentioned so far is the fear of civil unrest.

It is a long time since "race riots" were a thing in the UK, so this is not the first decoding that springs to mind when we read in previous previous inquiries that police, councils, schools, social workers, etc. were concerned about "community cohesion", "racial tensions", etc.

Anyone searching for information about "race riots" in the UK might be forgiven for thinking that the term has always referred to riots involving predominantly white men: such as those that occurred last year after the Southport dance-class massacre, in which three little girls were hacked to death by Axel Rudakubana.

This is by no means a complete list:

Pages in category "Race riots in England"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Race_riots_in_England

Fear of race riots might well be part of the reason for the extreme reluctance of Bradford to address the issue of organised CSE by predominantly Pakistani heritage men.

There are so many articles addressing different aspects and interpretations. Here are two at random:

From Oldham to Bradford: the violence of the violated
October 1 2001 - Institute of Race Relations
Written by: Arun Kundnani
https://irr.org.uk/article/from-oldham-to-bradford-the-violence-of-the-violated/

The Bradford riots 20 years on, told by the people who were there and why 'racism, fear and anger haven't gone away'
Residents claim the city is still riven by racism, crime and fear two decades after devastating race riots
3 July 2021
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/bradford-riots-20-years-on-20928647

Telford saw "race riots" after the police shooting of Ian Gordon in 1991.

Tension is high in the black community of Hadley, near Telford, in Shropshire after West Mercia police marksmen shot dead a 24 year old black man, Ian Gordon, who had been seen walking around the town with an air rifle. . . After Ian's death there were angry clashes between the community and the police, and four hundred demonstrators marched through Telford in protest at the killing.

https://www.statewatch.org/statewatch-database/police-shoot-black-youth/

Unrelated, the Telford Inquiry heard how police were attacked and humiliated when they went into unofficial "no go" areas that were dominated by a "gang culture" of young Pakistani men. So perhaps West Midlands Police were concerned that they would be unable to cope if the area were to be hit by "race riots", ie. if they exercised their duties to protect young girls from CSE?

If so, the price of police and Council concern to avoid "race riots" was paid by the children who were murdered, raped, drugged and trafficked. Quite how that contributes to "community cohesion" is beyond me.

The Telford Inquiry provides further background information to explain why the Council and West Midlands Police were were concerned about "community cohesion", "racial tensions", and "race riots".

Report of the Independent Inquiry Telford Child Sexual Exploitation
Chaired by Tom Crowther QC* *
VOLUME FOUR OF FOUR
12 July 2022* *

Pages 1125 - 1133

The issue of race/racial tensions

(Far too much to copy and paste all that here. The Telford Council website page was updated on 17 June 2025 and there are now links to download the IITCSE Report, rather than to the expired IITCSE website which was the case when I was creating a stink about it on 12 July. Success!)

Extracts:

9.73 In order to analyse fully the role of race and/or racial tensions in respect of CSE in Telford, I consider it is important to highlight some key events that may have impacted racial tensions, and affected official responses, in the area throughout the Inquiry’s Terms of Reference. These events were not related to CSE, but provide a necessary background with which to better understand the important pre-existing tensions in the area:

9.73.1 It is a matter of public record that in 1991, Ian Gordon, a 24 year old black man, was shot dead by WMP. There were differing accounts of the events that led to his death; the police said that he was in possession of an air rifle and lives were at risk; others believed he had told the police it was a toy gun before being shot by officers. This incident caused angry clashes between the police and the community at the time, including protests requiring the deployment of riot trained officers.44

9.73.2 On 2 July 1999, Errol McGowan, a black door supervisor was found hanging as a result of an apparent suicide;45 the jury at his inquest determined it was death by suicide. There was however speculation surrounding the circumstances of his death, with suggestions that he was subject to a campaign of harassment and death threats by a racist gang.46 This led to the suggestion that he was murdered by this group. Errol McGowan had friends in the Asian community and there is an indication that tensions existed after his death due to the threats he allegedly received. Media reports suggested that there may have been a ‘turf war’ between white and Asian gangs “vying for control of the council estates in the Wellington area of the town”.47 There was local criticism concerning the WMP response and investigation into his death, which included issues such as institutional incompetence/racism following the Macpherson Report.48

9.73.3 On 1 January 2000, Jason McGowan, the nephew of Errol McGowan, was found dead in similar circumstances, hanging from railings in Telford.49 WMP considered the death a suicide and the McGowan family complained as they viewed the two deaths as connected.50 The death of Jason McGowan in these circumstances significantly increased the racial tensions in the area and added to the criticisms of WMP following the death of his uncle.51 The Inquest into Jason McGowan recorded an open verdict.52

9.73.4 In addition to these events, John Elliot, a black male who lived in Telford, was found hanging on 31 May 2001.53 There was a suggestion that his death was linked to drug dealers in the area and there were reports that this led to a further significant rise in racial tensions.54

https://www.telford.gov.uk/media/tekboktg/iitcseplusreportplus-plusvolumeplusfour.pdf

In Newcastle upon Tyne there was no history of "race riots" and Operation Sanctuary was immediately launched when the Council and Northumbria Police became aware of CSE perpetrated by men from minority ethnic communities.

Maybe that difference is significant, ie. no history of "race riots"?

Joint Serious Case Review Concerning Sexual Exploitation of Children and Adults with Needs for Care and Support in Newcastle-upon-Tyne
Independent Report Author – David Spicer
Feb 2018

Page 7

". . . over Christmas 2013, a 21-year-old woman who has a learning disability began to speak to her social worker about experiences of sexual exploitation over a long period. With encouragement, support and great courage, in January 2014 she gave a statement to the police in which she detailed her abuse and concerns about other children and young people. She identified places to which she had been taken.

This account and other intelligence suggested the extent of sexual exploitation was greater than previously identified and required a strategic, well-resourced, victim focussed multi-agency response. Proposals were taken to the Northumbria Police Chief Officers’ Team and to senior officers in partner agencies. A police-led multiagency investigation, Operation Sanctuary, was launched in January 2014. Newcastle Safeguarding Children Board and Newcastle Safeguarding Adults Board provided interagency strategic commitment and there was strong political support."

https://newcastle.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Final%20JSCR%20Report%20160218%20PW.PDF

Newcastle also recognised that CSE is but one aspect of sexual exploitation and the longer term strategy is to protect adults (usually young women) as well as children (mostly girls).

https://www.newcastlesafeguarding.org.uk/joint-serious-case-review/

Fear of "race riots" is not a factor in the cover-ups that involve, "a group of white men who all know each other from some sort of club or whatever".

The outcome, that sexual abuse and exploitation of children is covered up, might be the same but the strategies and tactics to empower and encourage the authorities to expose and deter cover-ups will be different.

IMHO one of the big dangers of the "white men do it too" response to the "Grooming Gangs" phenomenon is that it distracts attention from the victims: all the victims, including the girls and young women within a community who are also raped, tortured and trafficked by the same gangs.

We have got to get over this particular "sensitivity to race" that results in children and women being harmed. We manage it with other populations. If the National Crime Agency tackles the Mafia no one says, "What about the Russian Mafia or the Triads? Aren't they just as bad?" or "Not all Italians!" or Not all Catholics!".

I think it is starting to happen as more and more gangs of men from different ethnic backgrounds are prosecuted in different parts of the UK. It should also improve if we do see better recording of the ethnicity of victims and perps as an outcome of the Casey's National Audit on Group-Based Child Sexual Exploitation and Abuse.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-audit-on-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-and-abuse

For example, Operation Sanctuary in Newcastle saw convictions of men who are:

Pakistani, Bangladeshi , Indian, Iranian, Iraqi, Kurdish, Turkish, Albanian and Eastern European.

As far as protecting children within specific communities is concerned, an indiscriminate, proactive approach to safeguarding children in the perpetrator's families might be the best way to avoid both:

  • "racial profiling" that leads to accusations of racism
  • the risk of overlooking children who might be being abused and exploited within different communities.

eg. Newcastle Operation Sanctuary:

Before 2014, "There was little inquiry into what other victims there may be or the vulnerability of children, young people, and vulnerable adults in the perpetrators’ families and circle of contacts."

"During Operation Sanctuary, arrangements were in place to promptly assess the welfare of children in the families of suspected perpetrators and to consider the need for support of adults who had no involvement in abuse."

I really do feel that we have turned a corner in the UK with Louise Casey's National Audit and the Government's prompt response. Even if we are, apparently, all far right now. Including the Labour Party!

The Home Secretary updated the House on the National Audit on Group-based Child Sexual Exploitation and Abuse ('grooming gangs') carried out by Baroness Casey.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/baroness-caseys-audit-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-and-abuse

If anyone hasn't seen Louise Casey and her team reporting to the Home Affairs Select Committee, I found it very encouraging:

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/83/home-affairs-committee/news/207703/baroness-casey-questioned-on-findings-of-her-audit-of-groupbased-child-sexual-abuse/

The Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP

Baroness Casey's audit of group-based child sexual exploitation and abuse

The Home Secretary updated the House on the National Audit on Group-based Child Sexual Exploitation and Abuse ('grooming gangs') carried out by Baroness Casey.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/baroness-caseys-audit-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-and-abuse

WarriorN · 19/06/2025 12:47

interesting points @POWNewcastleEastWallsend

SionnachRuadh · 20/06/2025 12:48

thanks @POWNewcastleEastWallsend

I'd say, maybe controversially, that when people talk about "white grooming gangs" that muddies the waters in an important way. Because there might be lots of group-based CSE where the perpetrators are predominantly or exclusively white, but that's not their common denominator.

It's like talking about "white criminal gangs", which I don't think makes sense unless it's some far-right offshoot of Combat 18 or the EDL, where "white" is the identity marker that binds them. With other "white" gangs the marker that binds them will be different - occupational like cab drivers, hobbies like bikers, "white" ethnic subgroups like Albanians.

What I've not really seen acknowledged is that with Pakistani-heritage men convicted of CSE offences it's nothing so loose as "gangs", it's extended families, and that's a key part of the dynamic.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/06/2025 12:50

Yes, great points.

OneAmberFinch · 20/06/2025 23:14

SionnachRuadh · 20/06/2025 12:48

thanks @POWNewcastleEastWallsend

I'd say, maybe controversially, that when people talk about "white grooming gangs" that muddies the waters in an important way. Because there might be lots of group-based CSE where the perpetrators are predominantly or exclusively white, but that's not their common denominator.

It's like talking about "white criminal gangs", which I don't think makes sense unless it's some far-right offshoot of Combat 18 or the EDL, where "white" is the identity marker that binds them. With other "white" gangs the marker that binds them will be different - occupational like cab drivers, hobbies like bikers, "white" ethnic subgroups like Albanians.

What I've not really seen acknowledged is that with Pakistani-heritage men convicted of CSE offences it's nothing so loose as "gangs", it's extended families, and that's a key part of the dynamic.

I think this is a very interesting point about the family networks. I hadn't heard of the term biraderi clan (example) before the last year or two for example, and then only in right-wing media/X accounts. Although that might just be my own ignorance, I'd be interested to see what % of mumsnet users, say, were familiar with the concept.

It cuts to the heart of the issue I alluded to earlier re: being deliberately blind to race/ethnicity as a matter of (sincere, well-meaning) ideological policy, and how this is one of the points of the British state/establishment most vulnerable to exploitation.

Most British people would never even dream to say that someone could be tarred with suspicion simply because their relative was a criminal. It would be unthinkable to make such an accusation in public. It is fundamental to our entire justice system. It would be seen as extremely suspicious state overreach even to suggest that someone should be investigated, or treated differently in any way by the state, because of it. If people apply for positions where they'll have access to sensitive information or be able to influence decisions, at most we ask them about their spouse or children to see if there are any potentially problematic connections.

We feel perfectly able to condemn someone for being part of, say, a biker club, and to say that if one member is accused of something then we should investigate the entire club/gang. We see that as people using their right to free association, and we judge them negatively for choosing this particular association. If some of the bikers weren't criminals but just love the wind in their hair - we shrug and say that the extra investigation was worth it, because the investigation overall probably turned up several more criminals, and they had the choice to not join a biker gang if they didn't want the police looking into their business.

But we are fundamentally wedded to the idea that you can't choose who you are related to, and you cannot be judged or treated differently because of immutable characteristics. And it's really noble. But it makes us blind. Pakistani biraderi clans are far from the only example of ethnic/tribal loyalties affecting UK politics, and we lose significant predictive power by deliberately ignoring them.

I write a lot on MN about cultural incompatibilities and get a lot of mumbo-jumbo back about spicy food and holidays. But how do you resolve the dilemma above? Either we lose/loosen an important moral principle to us (don't discriminate on immutable characteristics), or we significantly constrain the police and various public bodies in their ability to do their jobs. Once again, an example of where our stated principles rely on an unstated assumption of living in a particular type of high-trust society, which is increasingly no longer the case.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 21/06/2025 04:10

Very interesting, OneAmberFinch!

"Pakistani biraderi clans are far from the only example of ethnic/tribal loyalties affecting UK politics,"

Which other ones would you say are salient at the moment?

Would you include "indigenous ethnic/tribal loyalties" Scottish, Welsh and Cornish Nationalism?

Biraderi clans are endogamous communities that rely on Cousin Marriage (and similar arrangements, eg. Uncle-Niece marriage?) to maintain their kinship networks. I assume that this is one of the reasons for political resistance to banning Cousin Marriage in the UK.

SionnachRuadh · 21/06/2025 08:32

@POWNewcastleEastWallsend There are some examples in local government in London. The big one is Tower Hamlets, which I think outsiders struggle to understand because they try to view it through a left/right ideological lens, but the loyalties and rivalries among councillors has got more to do with what village in Bangladesh their parents came from. And some of the CLPs in the East End have enormous paper memberships because councillors will sign up their entire extended families.

There's a bit of the same thing in other London boroughs where there are concentrated ethnic communities, but that generally just means dominating candidate selection in a particular ward. And Labour in London is pretty good at running a spoils system where x ethnic group gets y councillors and therefore a slice of the pie.

The historical precursor to this would be Irish Catholic versus Orange politics in Liverpool and Glasgow, but not many people remember that.

I can see it all breaking down because this kind of spoils system requires Labour to be in power to moderate between the groups, and at the current direction of travel Labour might have a seriously reduced local government presence in the next couple of years.

lcakethereforeIam · 04/09/2025 21:29

I followed a link on another thread to the Express and I noticed a headline.

Labour council leader suspended after calling rape gang victims 'white trash' | Politics | News | Express.co.uk https://share.google/g8PzyFRF9qRzyGNKb

I'm utterly aghast. At least Labour have immediately suspended him.

Labour council leader suspended after calling rape gang victims 'white trash'

Labour Council Leader who called rape victims 'white trash' is suspended by party after Express revealed his gross comments.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2104421/labour-rotherham-grooming-gangs-scandal?int_source=nba

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/09/2025 22:40

FFS.

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