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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Keir Starmer to launch grooming gangs inquiry that will make witnesses testify

143 replies

IwantToRetire · 15/06/2025 01:14

Keir Starmer has confirmed that there will be a statutory inquiry into grooming gangs which means it will have the power to compel witnesses to testify and provide documents

The Prime Minister, who has previously resisted calls for another probe, said it was now "the right thing to do". And he confirmed it would be a statutory inquiry, which means it will have legal powers to compel witnesses to testify and produce documents. It comes as the findings of Baroness Dame Louise Casey's rapid audit into group-based child exploitation and abuse are due to be announced next week.

Mr Starmer said: "I have never said we should not look again at any issue. I have wanted to be assured that on the question of any inquiry. That's why I asked Louise Casey who I hugely respect to do an audit.

"Her position when she started the audit was that there was not a real need for a national inquiry over and above what was going on. She has looked at the material she has looked at and she has come to the view that there should be a national inquiry on the basis of what she has seen."

The PM added: "I have read every single word of her report and I am going to accept her recommendation. That is the right thing to do on the basis of what she has put in her audit.

"I asked her to do that job to double check on this; she has done that job for me and having read her report, I respect her in any event. I shall now implement her recommendations." According to a leak of Baroness Casey's review, it is said to state some victims were "institutionally ignored for fear of racism."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/keir-starmer-says-grooming-gangs-35393814

Keir Starmer to launch grooming gangs inquiry that will make witnesses testify

Keir Starmer has confirmed that there will be a statutory inquiry into grooming gangs which means it will have the power to compel witnesses to testify and provide documents

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/keir-starmer-says-grooming-gangs-35393814

OP posts:
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WarriorN · 16/06/2025 10:20

So glad Maggie is on. She’s bang on that future children’s lives MUST be improved. I think she’s saying JR?

she wants baroness Casey to lead it

Kendodd · 16/06/2025 10:34

OneAmberFinch · 16/06/2025 09:26

I'm also fascinated in a way with the question of who will be on the inquiry team. Surely it cannot possibly be led by someone of Pakistani heritage*, but at the same time, how... I don't even know how you would make that stipulation. Is that even legal? At what level does it make sense to have community members involved, and at what point would that perhaps be desirable e.g. to decode in-group dynamics? I have not seen this discussed anywhere in the mainstream media probably for obvious reasons.

*For optics/public trust reasons if nothing else. I'm not saying every Pakistani-heritage British person is a grooming gang member, obviously; but this is a case where networks of family connections are both a) clearly important to the investigation and b) mostly opaque to the average British person

Wasn't one of the leading prosecuters who exposed this, with absolute dogged determination, Pakistani heritage?

WarriorN · 16/06/2025 10:41

Maggie is launching a JR against the gov for not putting into action previous recommendations.

WarriorN · 16/06/2025 10:44

Maggie is putting across the pov that the enquiry is a PR exercise unless resources are put into place to provide what’s needed for the outcomes.

Imnobody4 · 16/06/2025 11:03

Kendodd · 16/06/2025 10:34

Wasn't one of the leading prosecuters who exposed this, with absolute dogged determination, Pakistani heritage?

Yes. Nazir Afzal, head of CPS (retired). He would be an asset because of his in depth knowledge.

Imnobody4 · 16/06/2025 11:20

This is also good news. A lot of men are going to be feeling very uneasy.

news.sky.com/story/nationwide-police-operation-on-grooming-gangs-announced-13384155

A nationwide police operation to track down those in grooming gangs has been announced by the Home Office.
The National Crime Agency (NCA) will target those who have sexually exploited children as part of a grooming gang, and will investigate cases that were not previously progressed.
Home Secretary Yvette Cooper said in a statement: "The vulnerable young girls who suffered unimaginable abuse at the hands of groups of adult men have now grown into brave women who are rightly demanding justice for what they went through when they were just children.
"More than 800 grooming gang cases have already been identified by police after I asked them to look again at cases which had closed too early.
"Now we are asking the National Crime Agency to lead a major nationwide operation to track down more perpetrators and bring them to justice."
The NCA will work in partnership with police forces around the country and specialist officers from the Child Sexual Exploitation Taskforce, Operation Hydrant - which supports police forces to address all complex and high-profile cases of child sexual abuse - and the Tackling Organised Exploitation Programme.

Grooming Gangs - The Latest News from the UK and Around the World | Sky News

Sky News - First for Breaking News, video, headlines, analysis and top stories from business, politics, entertainment and more in the UK and worldwide.

https://news.sky.com/topic/grooming-gangs-11604

WarriorN · 16/06/2025 11:21

That is good news

PronounssheRa · 16/06/2025 12:01

Imnobody4 · 16/06/2025 11:03

Yes. Nazir Afzal, head of CPS (retired). He would be an asset because of his in depth knowledge.

He has done excellent work in the past, but if i recall, isn't in favour of a national inquiry and prefers local inquiries (I disagree because local means people involved in the cover up may also be involved in the inquiry and this was human trafficking where childen were moved cross country)

So I would welcome his involvement he has a wealth of knowledge but im not sure he would be the right person to lead it.

WarriorN · 16/06/2025 12:26

We apparently won’t know for a while who will lead it. Maggie Olivier seems to only trust Casey

mantaraya · 16/06/2025 12:58

What's shocking to me is that this is continually spoken about as though it's happened in the past when it is still happening right this minute. I listened to a podcast recently with the father of a victim who has only just recently (in the last 2 years) escaped. He's campaigning about this issue and was saying that he thinks it's worse than ever right now.

He had stories of sitting in his car outside the house of one of the abusers all night and continually ringing the police to get them to come and help him get his daughter out. He was constantly fobbed off by them and his daughter treated like a naughty teenager rather than someone being raped and sex trafficked. It was chilling.

twinklystar23 · 16/06/2025 13:57

MrsGuyOfGisbo · 15/06/2025 16:32

It’s quite offensive they are still being referred to as ‘grooming’ gangs. The rapes were horrific -they should be referring to ‘rape’ gangs.

Agree. Though possibly, albeit a mouthful child paedophile, rape and torture gangs.

ClosetBasketCase · 16/06/2025 15:53

Just when we though all this was dying a death.

It might be agood thing that things are looked at closer - maybe - however to fore the witnesses to testify? Personally I think thats beyond whats reasonble.

Floisme · 16/06/2025 16:19

I’m pretty comfortable with the likes of senior police officers, heads of social services and politicians being compelled to appear as witnesses. I understand this is one of the key differences between a national Inquiry with statutory powers and a local one. Oldham Councillors, who know a lot more about it than I do, seem to think the same as they voted for a national inquiry in February.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr46yxnw1d1o.amp

A teenage girl obscures her face with balled fists pressed against her eyes as she leans against a wall

Oldham Council demands statutory public inquiry into child sex abuse in town - BBC News

Councillors vote unanimously to call for a public inquiry to shouts of "finally" from the public gallery.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr46yxnw1d1o.amp

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 16/06/2025 17:12

OneAmberFinch · 16/06/2025 09:01

What I would like as an outcome is for more specificity about how these gangs operated and were sheltered by authorities, so we can be more alert to similar cases.

For example the oft-cited "were scared of seeming racist": I think people assume that this was just a general fear of "PC gone mad", but did anyone run up against, say, some specific policy or implementation of equality law? Did this prevent accusing any specific non-white person, or did it prevent types of profiling and general analysis that might have helped, and if so what types? etc

I also am interested in, to what extent was it a matter of bored authorities failing to act (e.g. "they're just slags, who cares") vs intentional cover-up/abetting, e.g. by family members or the community. The news cycle in January alluded to some of the latter but I think that since they were mainly reading older and anonymised reports containing anecdotes it was hard to get a sense of the scale. (Potentially, it changed over the decades as the makeup of councils/police changed.)

For example the oft-cited "were scared of seeming racist": I think people assume that this was just a general fear of "PC gone mad", but did anyone run up against, say, some specific policy or implementation of equality law? Did this prevent accusing any specific non-white person, or did it prevent types of profiling and general analysis that might have helped, and if so what types? etc

I posted some quotes from the Telford Inquiry earlier in the thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5355023-5355023-keir-starmer-to-launch-grooming-gangs-inquiry-that-will-make-witnesses-testify?reply=145012913

There is more evidence in the Telford Report, citing minutes of meetings, correspondence and interviews, showing that council employees, social workers, schools and police shied away from dealing with known perps and evidence of "street grooming" due to concerns about "racial tensions".

eg. (there are other examples)

Report of the Independent Inquiry Telford Child Sexual Exploitation
Chaired by Tom Crowther QC
VOLUME ONE OF FOUR

page 111-113 (bolding as in the original)

Race and Racial tensions

  1. One particularly sensitive issue that has been raised within the community concerns the extent to which race and/or racial tensions has, or has not, played a role in relation to CSE in Telford.

  2. As to the suggestion, raised by witnesses, that Telford’s CSE issues are specifically centred around the Pakistani or South Asian community:

614.1 It would in my judgment be wholly wrong, and undoubtedly racist, to equate membership of a particular racial group with propensity to commit CSE

614.2 That said, on the papers disclosed by key stakeholders, it is an undeniable fact that a high proportion of those cases involved perpetrators that were described by victims/survivors and others as being “Asian” or, often, “Pakistani”. The Inquiry has itself also heard such accounts from victims/survivors. In considering the evidence, and in particular the disclosed material, I have been cautious not to infer too much from names, which may indicate wider geographical background and indeed religious heritage, but are wholly unreliable indicators of national background and (in particular) religious belief. Even bearing that in mind, however, the evidence plainly shows that the majority of CSE suspects in Telford during my Terms of Reference were men of southern Asian heritage, including all the men convicted in Chalice, and Operations Delta and Epsilon.

  1. No perpetrator of CSE has volunteered evidence to the Inquiry; there is no evidence to assist me in determining why they committed acts of sexual exploitation. But I regard it as important to consider whether there were any circumstances which might have led perpetrators within the Asian community to feel they could act, as I consider they did, essentially with impunity.

  2. In that regard, I have no doubt that there was a background of nervousness around race in Telford from the earliest days of my Terms of Reference. The following features of the evidence are relevant in my view:

616.1 First, there were significant events which caused tensions between WMP and the wider community and concerns over race, which I detail in Chapter 9: Attitudes and Impact;

616.2 Second, I heard evidence that during the 1990s teachers and parents were reluctant to address potential CSE issues for concerns that they would be labelled racist;

616.3 Third, I heard evidence from a number of witnesses who suggested that certain areas of Wellington were not approachable by the police:

“a group of men were being allowed to get away with breaking the law, Regent Street at the time was seen as a no-go area, it was creating lots of problems and as a result there were young people who were feeling that, young Pakistani boys were feeling they were above the law and they could do what the hell they wanted, and nothing else mattered. And if you were not known in that area and you came to that area, you would be intimidated. There was a gang mentality that ‘this is our patch and you stay off the patch’.” 507

  1. I have no doubt that concern about racism, and being seen to be racist, permeated the mind of WMP, and indeed of the Council and the minds of some of its employees, given the apparent tensions at the time. That is not a bad thing: there should be a culture of equality of treatment and fairness in delivery in government. But I am satisfied that this nervousness led to a reluctance to act.

  2. So far as the Council is concerned, I have seen evidence that:

618.1 In relation to the early 2000s, there was a feeling that certain individuals in the Asian community were not targeted for investigation into child exploitation because it would have been too “politically incorrect”;508

618.2 At a multi-agency meeting at which inappropriate behaviour by an Asian male towards a child was discussed, no action was taken forward: “It seemed to be ... it was because of the ethnicity of the people involved they felt as if the police were frightened to question or challenge because they didn’t want to have the finger pointed at them, saying they were being racist”; 509

618.3 Between 2006 to 2008, senior management within the Council were concerned that allegations about Asian male involvement with CSE in Wellington had the potential to start a “race riot”;510

618.4 In around 2007, sexual exploitation meeting notes suggest that exploitation by Asian men had been “going on for years”, suggesting knowledge and inaction;511 and

618.5 As I have noted elsewhere, with regard to the Council’s response to complaints of racism in the field of taxi licensing, there was an immediate, almost reflexive, complete retreat which undermined enforcement – a basic public protection programme - for some years.

  1. In the same way, I am satisfied that in some cases the decisions of WMP officers about whether or not to investigate a particular piece of intelligence or complaint were influenced by assumptions about race: whether because of ideas of difficulties investigating what was seen as a closed and hostile community, because of fear of complaint, or because of concern about the impact an investigation might have had on racial tensions, I cannot determine. One witness told the Inquiry that on being approached to join the Chalice team, they were reluctant: “I said no, and that was because of the Asian element, you know, we’re going to be on to a loser.”512

  2. It would, of course, be nonsense to suggest that considerations of race and ethnicity should play no part in policing a community with a large population of a particular racial or ethnic group; but for those considerations to lead to a situation where certain streets are not patrolled, or where certain crimes are not investigated, is a dereliction of the police’s most basic duty.

  3. It is impossible, sadly, not to wonder how history might have been different had the culture in the 1990s and early 2000s within the Council and WMP not been overly concerned with questions of race and placed a greater focus on child protection.

----

The other aspect of this racism is that the sexual abuse, sexual exploitation and trafficking of children (mostly girls) and young women from minority ethnic communities by men within those communities is even less well recognised and investigated than the "on street" grooming gangs.

UNHEARD VOICES - Sexual Exploitation of Asian Girls and Young Women
September 2013

These children suffer the same gang-based rape and torture that has become horrifying familiar from court cases but they are even less likely to get support and justice, whether from the authorities or from within their own communities.

https://www.mwnuk.co.uk/resourcesDetail.php?id=97

illinivich · 16/06/2025 17:45

Its often forgotten that lots of people who didnt do as much as they could were terrified of the perpetrators and their friends and family. Even if prosecuted, these men would often serve months in prison and be welcomed back in their old lives - same home, often in the same job.

It would be frightening to testify and come face to face with then again at work or on the streets.

Not saying its right.

OneAmberFinch · 16/06/2025 17:51

Imnobody4 · 16/06/2025 11:03

Yes. Nazir Afzal, head of CPS (retired). He would be an asset because of his in depth knowledge.

Certainly not disputing this, but can you imagine the Daily Mail comment section if you announced he was leading the inquiry?

Perhaps they'd only announce it in the winter...

WarriorN · 16/06/2025 18:33

From bbc live feed on the app:

Casey: I changed my mind about national inquiry due to 'reluctance' of areas to face facts
published at 17:36
17:36
Baroness Casey says she didn't think a national inquiry was needed before she started work on her audit into the grooming gangs scandal, since there had been one already.
But it became "absolutely clear" to her that an inquiry was needed due to the "reluctance of local areas to face up to the facts that they didn't treat victims well enough, that they haven't accepted that they have failings".
While working on her audit, Casey says she realised the government has to "grip" the issue, and the way to do that is with statutory powers.

WarriorN · 16/06/2025 18:41

It sounds like she advised the government that they had no choice

miraxxx · 16/06/2025 18:54

OneAmberFinch · 16/06/2025 17:51

Certainly not disputing this, but can you imagine the Daily Mail comment section if you announced he was leading the inquiry?

Perhaps they'd only announce it in the winter...

I have heard one specific allegation against him : he tried to force a victim into testifying by charging her as a procurer and her life has been ruined by this heavy handed tactic. He may have done a lot of good in an area blighted by callous indifference but there is a black mark against him. Maggie Oliver is the source for this.

IwantToRetire · 16/06/2025 19:56

Kendodd · 16/06/2025 08:46

Am I the only one who thinks this is a terrible idea that just kicks the can years/decades down the road and costs hundreds of millions?
We've had an enquiry, it took seven years and cost £200 million and produced 20 recommendations. Have they been implemented I wonder? I would much, much rather tell police to investigate cold cases, encourage victims who didn't get justice to report to police. Give police the power to investigate the people who covered up or dismissed victims (including police officers who did this).
Ffs, no more talking, we all know what happened, action is what's needed.

That's what I said in my post!

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IwantToRetire · 16/06/2025 20:07

Having been a bit negative about Casey I was pleased to hear via a news programme (so not sure of details) that the report shouldn't just be about the situation where it appears councils didn't act because of concerns about racism but the growing horror which has been raised about violence in schools.

Much of these coming from street gang culture where sexual voilence against women is part of being initiated into the group, and that women (well probably girls) are expected to accept this is their role.

And that too many young people are thinking this is the norm which has come up in reports of really young boys working together to attack young women. (Seeing it as part of gaining status.)

Which is different from the organised sexual abuse of girls and young women who for whatever reason are not getting the protection they should be whilst under the care of social services etc.. Going back decades there have been terrible stories of children in orphanages being made the sexual victims of men with status.

So it isn't just about the rapists and how they band together but that as a society we still haven't found a system that actually protects young people.

And although this is no excuse, cant help but think that cuts to local services, the use of unregulated accommodation, and so on just creates more and more opportunities for predators.

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Imnobody4 · 16/06/2025 20:15

I was quite stunned by Yvette Coopers performance. Of course we must collect proper data on ethnicity!etc

Making it quite clear that sex with13 to 16 year olds is rape rather than fudging it as a lesser crime is also a good idea.

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LemondrizzleShark · 16/06/2025 21:28

Kendodd · 16/06/2025 08:46

Am I the only one who thinks this is a terrible idea that just kicks the can years/decades down the road and costs hundreds of millions?
We've had an enquiry, it took seven years and cost £200 million and produced 20 recommendations. Have they been implemented I wonder? I would much, much rather tell police to investigate cold cases, encourage victims who didn't get justice to report to police. Give police the power to investigate the people who covered up or dismissed victims (including police officers who did this).
Ffs, no more talking, we all know what happened, action is what's needed.

Have to say I agree with this - we all know what the problem was, and how to address it. There’s just no political will to.

i was quite impressed by the raft of reforms Yvette Cooper has laid out though - those actually do sound like they might improve things. What you can do about the underlying problem, police and social workers who simply don’t give a shit about victims, I really don’t know.

IwantToRetire · 16/06/2025 21:40

i was quite impressed by the raft of reforms Yvette Cooper has laid out though

How many are different from the Jay report 3 years ago?

OP posts: