Non-binary child major rupture in relationship

[Goldenpatchwork]

I have been as supportive as possible but dc and I had major fall out yesterday over issue of misgendering and ‘top surgery’.

This issue has been ongoing for several years. I see their psychological pain, and change my position on the surgery. Then the crisis passes and DC does nothing to progress their decision, and we’re back to square one - me questioning the politics of a community that promotes surgery and the articulation and simplification of the procedure.

DC is angry because I keep changing my mind. I respond because I change my mind in response to their pain but revert back to original scepticism when they have taken no action and I am relieved they haven’t. They are giving themselves time to contemplate.

It all came to a head last night and our relationship is further fractured. I don’t know when I have contact again. It’s really light touch now.

I can’t do anything but let it run its course. However, I feel I am being use a battering ram for DC’s actually being captured by the ideology.

Having written this perhaps I should grateful that I am perceived as the barrier. It’s delaying a life changing decision.

I feel such huge sense of grief.,

Do they live with you? Can you not take the stance of "I love you I'm simply not going to discuss this with you anymore?"

I'm sorry your going through this and unfortunately other than pointing you towards genspec I can't of any advice

How old is she?

I’m so sorry. How old is she?

That's very hard. The idea of mastectomy for non binary young women has been normalised, it's so sad.
I can imagine that as a parent I wouldn't object too much as I would be so relieved they weren't having a hysterectomy. I haven't heard of nb women having hysterectomies, it seems isolated to breasts, which are visible and make us feel self conscious when we're young.

Have you contacted a group such as Baywater?

Thanks all will check out links. Really helpful

DC is 24 and lives with partner.

It maybe that I am too involved in their life. Pp quite right. No more discussion. Avoid it

I am non-binary, and had a double mastectomy. I am very lucky that my mother was so supportive throughout, because we've always been and continue to be close. Or, perhaps supportive is the wrong word; perhaps accepting? It's not really a frequent topic of discussion. That's not to say she agreed with my every decision, of course not, but though I came out in my late teens I was in my mid-twenties by the time I had surgery and she chose to respect my autonomy and wishes. I know she'd rather I didn't feel the need for surgery, but she's said since that she sees how much of a difference it makes.

I've been out for ten years now; I don't know how old your DC is, but I found things got easier as I got older. When I first came out, and before surgery, I found "misgendering" bothered me far more than it does now. I never said anything to my mum about it, she uses she/her and my old nickname more often than not, but I know it's what she's used to and the most important thing for me is that she doesn't mean it to deny me my identity or to make a point.

I will say that my double mastectomy was life-changing for me. I won't say life-saving, because that's a little cliche, but the ability to just get dressed and go out without feeling the need to bind or hide has been amazing. I had five years on waiting lists before my first consultation, which I'm grateful for; it gave me time to think things through and make sure I knew what I wanted. Now I'm finally able to exercise, to wear more than just baggy t-shirts, to dress up smart when I want to, to focus on the rest of my life without feeling like I'm still waiting for something. Now that my body itself feels more "neutral" I also felt comfortable to grow out my hair and wear skirts and dresses sometimes; gender isn't something I talk or even think about often. "Misgendering" really doesn't bother me now I'm comfortable in my own body, honestly. I'd never correct anyone over it.

I can't speak for your DC, obviously, but I hope if they do choose surgery that they have a similarly relieving experience. I know it must be incredibly different from a parent's perspective. I hope that perhaps my account might be reassuring in some way, I suppose, and I hope the support others have linked to help you find a place and position in all this where you're comfortable.

Why is it that females who identify as non binary almost always want to have their breasts removed so they look more like a male? I’ve never heard of males who identify as non binary having breast implants. I wonder why?

This is exactly the question I was going to ask. Male as default human, again. It makes me so sad, as a woman who was deeply uncomfortable with her growing breasts during puberty and who has since survived breast cancer.

The problem parents have is we are by definition older than our children. We now understand the things we rolled our eyes at when we were in our teens and 20s. The "if I'd known then what I know now" comments. We don't just have a few years perspective on our younger years. We have decades.

Keep the lines of communication open if you can @Goldenpatchwork but your instinct that your child does not need a cosmetic procedure to be themselves seems sound.

@nbartist thank you for taking the time to provide a thoughtful post. I shall refer to it frequently.

You say you had the surgery in your mid-20s. DC is 24. Can you describe the events leading up to the surgery? Did you have to wait or had the surgery when you were ready?

@nbartist would you consider doing an AMA? I have come across quite a few young women who identify as non-binary but really don't understand the concept at all.

I would also be interested in an AMA @nbartist

@nbartist Thank you for sharing your experience, my daughter's best friend has been nb since school and is now mid twenties waiting for surgery, your post helped shed light on why they may want such drastic surgery.
I hope they also find a relief and self acceptance, my biggest fear has always been that it changes nothing for them and leaves them 'lost'.

As sad as it is, I would not be feeding into this nonsense. I would be addressing HER and referring to HER by her appropriate gender and not engaging in any discussions about body modification, hormone therapy or similar.
And make it lear that you will be there for HER if and when the crisis has passed.

Honestly my dd and I do not discuss transgender issues at all she is full on twaw I'm...not I'm not disrespectful but I won't blindly support a rapist because they are being their "authentic self" and need a women's prison either she loathes JKR and I poked her a little today about the cast member who basically said not my circus when questioned about her she pulled a face so it seems that she is still totally toeing the party line I pointed out that no-one is obligated to agree/disagree with everything and that is fine to not have an opinion...then dropped it she ignored me on her phone for a bit she will be fine eventually

Having a double mastectomy is not 'non binary' is it.

It's a definite choice of 'male' presentation.

My guess would be your daughter talks to you about it because she wants your attention and approval.

she might love you and want to continue a good relationship with you and is worried if she changes you won’t like her as much.

or you have given her reason in the past to feel disapproved of (consciously or subconsciously)

and it isn’t necessarily regarding this - this could be a red herring (hence never pursuing it)

don’t just refuse to discuss it - she’ll feel rejected. Don’t argue against either. Just let her vent and nod and smile until you figure out what she actually needs from you

My oldest is NB, I don't think they want top surgery or will want it, but I have prepared myself for the possibility of them raising it. They have sometimes expressed ambivalence about their body, but never distress (though we've found they have a habit of hiding their real feelings for reasons we're not sure of, we generally have a very open relationship)

@Goldenpatchwork - it sounds like your child is vaccilating on how they feel. How old is your child? I think of mine were to be raising top surgery I would be advising them to wait until mid 20s, if they think they can bear that, because there's a lot of life experiences they haven't had yet that might change how they feel about their body (such as having a long-term sexual relationship). I think at their age it would be remiss of me not to advise that, and I'd tell them as much. The thought of it doesn't horrify me or anything, but I'd want to be really sure they made the right call.

DC is 24 and living with their partner.

Do you think she may have autism by any chance?

Honestly OP, I’d leave her to it.

A lot of people use the trans label to get attention, to make themselves feel special. If you give it zero attention, totally grey rock it, she’ll likely try to do something else to get your attention.

So they want top surgery until you agree then aren't bothered until you start to disagree then want it again til you agree? It's got nothing to do with top surgery and everything to do with wanting to rebel against you. Stop engaging, stop discussing it just say ' whatever'. Or 'your body your choice'. Odds are the whole problem vanishes

Urgh, it's horrible OP but at 24 she is a fully fledged adult & can chose what to do with her body.

She knows how you feel about it. She doesn't seem to know how SHE feels, so if your disapproval is no longer the blocker maybe she'll realise it's not you and it's actually her that isn't so sure.

I think you have to just step back & go grey on the subject. Offer no opinion other than you love her for who she is, accept her as an adult and don't want to fall out about this anymore.

That sounds really painful @Goldenpatchwork

I don't really have any answers, sorry! It does sound as if there's something about this that is very bound up in the dynamic between you and her. Otherwise she would just do it whatever you said. It's difficult though if it's your disapproval that's satisfying her need, if you go grey rock the logical thing might be for her to step it up and actually do it so you will disapprove again. But it's not your responsibility to second-guess her. So I agree with pp, keeping out of it and avoiding the subject and focussing on other aspects of your relationship might work better.

I was thinking abut the stages of intense grief that people talk about - denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. In my experience they don't come in order, more like a series of loops and sometimes even at the same time. To me when a pp said "at least she isn't having a hysterectomy" that is like bargaining "I can cope with this but not that". My DC is male and a couple of years older than your DC, for me it's "OK, DC is taking cross-sex hormones but I at least he's not planning to have surgery". My acceptance comes and goes. I don't share the other stages with DC.

@nbartist If your mother "chose to respect my autonomy and wishes" what were her alternatives? She couldn't have stopped you, any more than I can stop mine, or the OP can stop hers. Maybe she doesn't share her deeper feelings with you.

I think it’s difficult, but she is an adult, she can live her life however she likes. There’s a whole raft of potentially inadvisable things she could do: marry someone after 2 weeks, try heroin, join a commune, get a tattoo of tweety pie etc etc. But you and she have a relationship to be kind to each other. You love her and she loves you. I think that is most important. You both make your own choices as adults and live with the repercussions. But you both love each other.