Remarkably sensible article in the Guardian!

[NImumconfused]

Seems like the kind of thing you might have got in the Observer a year or two ago, but not the Grauniad.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jun/05/generational-divide-views-sex-gender-britain

That is an excellent article, thank you for sharing. So glad that the Guardian appears to have taken on board some of the feedback I'm sure it has been getting from its readers (I have definitely fed back some choice opinions over the last year or two).

I must admit when I read the first paragraph or two I thought it was going to be the usual Guardian preaching about young people being so much more open minded and tolerant than us old buddies, was very glad (as well as surprised) to see it wasn't!

Susanna Rustin had been excellent on women’s rights throughout this whole debacle from the beginning. God knows how she manages to remain at the Guardian when others have been hounded out for saying the same. It’s a credit to her resilience.

And she’s absolutely right, of course. Motherhood- in fact, even earlier, just deciding to have children - really brings home the sexual inequality and need for women’s rights; then peri menopause comes along to bludgeon us with that inequality even more.

When I was younger I thought things were much more ticketty boo for women than they turned out to be. Battles I thought we’d won were more precarious, regress more temporary than my youthful optimism believed.

Lammy’s wrong - we aren’t dinosaurs, we’re scarred and battle hardened. And we’re not giving up.

I think Susanna Rustin has always been quite good on this, they just hardly ever let her write about it. I still can’t believe how the Guardian sold out its pro-women writers. Maybe now reality is back on the table they could do a Woman’s Hour and at least interview some

Really good article, but I agree with PPs, Susanna Rustin is a lone voice of reason at the Guardian. God knows how she copes while surrounded by lunatics.

A colleague of mine has a mug with an image of someone sat at their desk with head in hands and the caption I'M SURROUNDED BY IDIOTS AND I CAN'T TAKE ANYMORE.

I've also seen a baseball cap with the job title SHITSHOW SUPERVISOR that I could buy for a few people I know....

Reddit transgender UK is having a little meltdown about this terribly "transphobic" article 😂

Quote: Another unstudied writer believing her own non empirically observed 'facts' and believing it is 'science'

Bless, they thought the Guardian was their friend but it's stabbed them in the back

Another unstudied writer believing her own non empirically observed 'facts' and believing it is 'science'

Without a trace of irony.

You beat me to posting this, @NImumconfused. Like other posters, I was expecting something different. It's an excellent article and, by pointing out the rise of misogyny among a sizeable group of younger men, I think Susanna Rustin has shown a major flaw in the 'right side of history argument'.

That's a hell of a joke, that they want to call on science!

She's succinct on about why permitting gender identity to override sex, is sexist - because doing so disadvantages women more than it does men. Taking that one for my swag bag..

Very much agree with the premise of the article, and can’t understand why any rational person would disagree.

They never allow comments on these articles though. I mean I can sort of see why because it would be an almighty bun fight, but it’s noticeable how they allow them on all sorts of political articles but never on these. I guess they can’t be bothered to moderate in a responsible way.

I think she's right but I also think a big part of this is that when you're young you're idealistic and think things are much simpler than they are. E.g. the world is full of goodies and baddies, there's the right side of history and the wrong side, we should all just be pacifist gender-fluid Marxists. It's only when you get older that you realise most things in life are complicated and there's no perfect solution. The best outcome we can hope for is a sort of messy compromise. Unfortunately that doesn't look great on a t-shirt.

"I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that" would probably work, @mantaraya

@Greyskybluesky aw the laugh react is gone.

"Yes men and women are different, mainly because children are sorted into a separate culture at birth based on genitals. Which is silly. You might as well say Belgians and Australians are different... FFS...."

They're HILARIOUS. Do they really think sexism is just a social construct?! A social construct that weirdly appears in every society that has ever existed.

Someone has commented asking for everyone's opinion on sports, prisons etc. Watching with interest to see how they'll get shouted down...

The article/book review she links to is also fascinating

www.theguardian.com/books/2000/aug/03/londonreviewofbooks

They do rather prove her point, if they think the only consequence of being male or female is having different genitals.

There's so much misunderstanding and misreading of the article in that reddit thread. It's a classic case study of a lack of comprehension. Worth reading the two side by side to compare what the journalist actually says with how the reddit posters perceive it.

Example: "I especially like the cancer comparison treating trans women as if they’re somehow unlikely to get breast cancer". But literally NOWHERE does the article say or imply that.

I know most of them are young (seem to be predominantly teens on there, give or take a few 'oldies') but come on! At least try to apply a smidge of critical thought about what you read!

Was also amused to see an 'older person' challenging the blatant ageism that inevitably rears its head.

Susanna's book Sexed is another one of those books I've bought to support the author but haven't managed to read much of. Good reminder to dig it out.

Wow thanks for this, shared! Susanna Rustin is truly a warrior!
@mantarayaI now want a t shirt saying “The best outcome we can hope for is a sort of messy compromise.” It actually sounds kinda cool

I've often read about Sarah Blaffer Hrdy but never actually read anything by her. Maybe now's the time to start. Is it bad to admit that I was always put off by the fact that I didn't know how to pronounce her surname? (Turns out it's "Herdy" - there's an interview with her on The Life Scientific: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001s5ff)

That’s true, young people do view things more in black and white than those who have more experience of life. I remember being very idealistic in my late teens. The problem now is that black and white thinking has become more entrenched, thanks to the Internet allowing people to easily find echo chambers full of people who agree with them, and the rise of cancel culture. The people who think they are morally right can now just ignore/shout down those who disagree with them, and I think that’s dangerous. I also worry that many young women are going to find out the hard way why others of us are so concerned about women’s safe spaces remaining single sex. Their complete inability to recognise that predators will take advantage of any situation is quite astounding to me. It matters not whether those individuals are ‘real’ transwomen, only that the situation puts biological women at risk.

I wonder if there is an evolutionary drive to discount the consequences of sex (pregnancy and childbirth) and focus on just having sex if you are either

a) male
b) a young female?

I've noticed - anecdotally, obviously - that the Gen Z's of my acquaintance base their 'be kind' stance on transgender teens/early 20somethings they know from school or college, most of whom quietly revert to simply being gay after a year or two, whereas my own, older, peer group base their more robust attitude on the middle-aged men who suddenly appear at work in court heels, waving an agenda. The Gen Zs generally haven't encountered the latter group yet, and - again, disclaimer: anecdotal experience - assume it's 'just Karens on the internet' making a fuss about purely theoretical issues.

My adult DD, a lesbian from her teens, was very 'no debate' while she was at university but now she's encountering more and more of the bepenised variety of lesbian in the wider world, her attitude has shifted somewhat.