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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Five Stages of Victory - Helen Joyce

44 replies

lcakethereforeIam · 01/06/2025 11:00

Just read this in the Critic, thought it was too good to not share and, feck it, let's give it its own thread

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-five-stages-of-victory/

Enjoy

Might be my favourite paragraph

Nothing I can say about the violent, fetishistic narcissism at the heart of trans activism is half as persuasive as what trans activists say themselves. Every time they speak, they make it harder for all but the most gender-addled politicians to continue insisting that every “transwoman” is a vulnerable sweetie nobly coping with the tragic, albeit puzzlingly metaphysical, disability of having been born looking exactly like a man.

Reminds me of a MN thread. Goes from deadly serious to hilarious via profound. We're very lucky.

OP posts:
Pleasantsort · 01/06/2025 16:40

@RoyalCorgi same but about five years maybe. Furious !

zanahoria · 01/06/2025 18:00

Bobblebottle · 01/06/2025 13:02

Helen Joyce is iconic. I've listened to so many interviews of her that I hear her voice in my head as I'm reading; I can just imagine her tone and facial expression at 'One cross-dressing man wanted the world to know that his "pussy tasted like non-biological fairy liquid".' 😂

I am never buying Fairy Liquid again

Enough4me · 01/06/2025 18:06

zanahoria · 01/06/2025 18:00

I am never buying Fairy Liquid again

Me neither, he must use it to clean it after dilation of the wound.

thenoisiesttermagant · 01/06/2025 18:31

DeanElderberry · 01/06/2025 15:59

I'm pretty sure all Fairy Liquid is non-biological. Has that bloke never done the washing-up?

Almost certainly never done the washing up. May have pretended to in stereotypically feminine pornified clothing. Actually done the work? Not so much. I think he's mixing up fairy washing up liquid (colloquially called 'fairy liquid') with fairy laundry detergent that comes in biological and non-biological forms. Typical bloke knowing nothing about cleaning products!

thenoisiesttermagant · 01/06/2025 18:34

I'm at rage with a strong undercurrent of intransigence and have been for years - particularly when it comes to safety for children. And the rage and determination won't go away until the massive safeguarding failures and experimentation on vulnerable children is totally at an end, preferably with some personal legal and criminal accountability for those in public institutions who have caused the harm.

Datun · 01/06/2025 18:40

Why have I never bloody heard the word scofflaw before??

It's absolutely perfect.

If Helen Joyce hadn't been an economist, mathematicianand a women's rights activist, she would have to have been an actress.

She has that indefinable thing, presence.

Datun · 01/06/2025 18:41

And ugh to washing up liquid. What the fuck is that all about?? 🤣

it can't possibly be because it's got the word fairy in it, can it??

ArabellaScott · 01/06/2025 18:52

Why have I never bloody heard the word scofflaw before??

Because you is Honest and Hlaw Habiding, innit.

borntobequiet · 01/06/2025 18:59

Datun · 01/06/2025 18:40

Why have I never bloody heard the word scofflaw before??

It's absolutely perfect.

If Helen Joyce hadn't been an economist, mathematicianand a women's rights activist, she would have to have been an actress.

She has that indefinable thing, presence.

I first came across the word scofflaw in the Alphabet Murders series of books featuring Kinsey Millhone, my favourite female detective. Apparently it was coined to describe those who scoffed at Prohibition laws and continued to drink anyway.
I was surprised to find that, because to me it sounded as though it might have a long history and perhaps be one of those words considered archaic here, but current in the US.

EdithStourton · 01/06/2025 19:00

Excellent article, thank you cake for posting it.

I'm at 'fucking furious', have been for about 6 years, and it shows no sign of abating.

Datun · 01/06/2025 19:06

ArabellaScott · 01/06/2025 18:52

Why have I never bloody heard the word scofflaw before??

Because you is Honest and Hlaw Habiding, innit.

Hai may not be. Hai might be a desperado.

Datun the Desperado has a certain ring

MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/06/2025 19:23

thenoisiesttermagant · 01/06/2025 18:34

I'm at rage with a strong undercurrent of intransigence and have been for years - particularly when it comes to safety for children. And the rage and determination won't go away until the massive safeguarding failures and experimentation on vulnerable children is totally at an end, preferably with some personal legal and criminal accountability for those in public institutions who have caused the harm.

Edited

Me too. To know that in a (hopefully dwindling) number of schools children are still being taught all this nonsense and persuaded that their bodies are flawed and a sex change is the cure, is enraging.

We have to keep going until children are safe from all this.

Bannedontherun · 01/06/2025 19:55

Our Helen has become much more hardline which i take great comfort from because i have become very hard line at 100 miles an hour.

And worried about it a bit

though not anymore.

SingleAHF · 02/06/2025 05:21

"A middle-aged cross-dresser with fake boobs spilling out of a baby-doll dress"

The image of him is, unfortunately, burned ito my memory forever and he was not middle aged but elderly, which made him look even more ridiculous.

Abhannmor · 02/06/2025 08:52

borntobequiet · 01/06/2025 18:59

I first came across the word scofflaw in the Alphabet Murders series of books featuring Kinsey Millhone, my favourite female detective. Apparently it was coined to describe those who scoffed at Prohibition laws and continued to drink anyway.
I was surprised to find that, because to me it sounded as though it might have a long history and perhaps be one of those words considered archaic here, but current in the US.

Edited

Me too! Always thought it was some Scots dialect word that survives in the southern USA. I love Helen's sort of composite Dublin/ Edinburgh accent. I have a friend whose voice and accent is exactly like hers so it's sometimes a bit disconcerting when I first hear her speak.
But by ' leftwing press ' I'm guessing she means the Guardian? They've been dreadful on this. But they're dripping wet liberals not leftwing. HJ was editor of the Economist so I imagine she is a 'sensible' Tory? If they still exist.

ghostofadog · 02/06/2025 10:20

I want to be Helen Joyce when I grow up 🙂

EdithStourton · 02/06/2025 11:45

Bannedontherun · 01/06/2025 19:55

Our Helen has become much more hardline which i take great comfort from because i have become very hard line at 100 miles an hour.

And worried about it a bit

though not anymore.

DH told me I was 'more militant about this' than he is.

I pointed out that he doesn't read MN. I do. Some of it is horrifying, and he misses that. However, me ranting doesn't have the same clout to him as a news article.

ExtraordinaryMachine1 · 02/06/2025 13:45

I thought that including detail about what was on the protestors' banners was particularly insightful - I would never have sought out photos or videos to find out myself, and never would have guessed those kind of messages. And no doubt the same is true for other readers.

Justwrong68 · 02/06/2025 14:23

She's a genius writer, I shared it with my ex who also loves her

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