Loretta Swit, who played ‘Hot Lips’ Houlihan on M*A*S*H, dies aged 87

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Anyone old enough to have regularly watched MASH will remember how relentlessly sexist and vile the scriptwriters and the two 'hero' male doctors were towards this character.
It was particularly infuriating because the male doctors, Hawkeye and Trapper, were supposed to represent all the virtues of humanity. And yet they reacted with typical male hatred and cruelty to an older woman in a position of some power (who tried to protect the younger nurses from their relentless womanising).

So it was interesting to read in this article, https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/may/30/loretta-swit-actor-dead , how Swit fought to bring some realism and depth to her character, and to combat the sexism. I seem to remember that the portrayal of Hot Lips did improve, but not enough to let the series off the hook for its sexism.

Reminds me of the viciously sexist portrayal of another nurse, Nurse Ratched in the film One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. Of course, the critique of mental health facilities that that film (and book) provides is valid, and the abuses of mental health patients were/are real. But it seemed to me that the author, the director and especially the actor Jack Nicholson just LOVED putting all the blame for this abuse on some uppity bitch of an older woman (despite the - naturally - male-dominated nature of mental health care in the period).

I haven't even been able to bring myself to watch the Netflix series Nurse Ratched for this reason. Does anyone know whether it tackles the sexism of the film?

It was of its time. In no way correct, but the evolution of her character was groundbreaking all the same. My overriding memory is that Margaret used to get the better of the ridiculous men. That was my takeaway. Possibly as a kid I didn’t see the rest? My Dad, who I watched it with, loved her strong character and always encouraged me to be strong and confident. I loved watching this series, with Dad, and my sadness is for the loss of her, and my joy is from the memories she created.

Great post OP. DH and I are often shocked by how women are portrayed by tv in 2025. So much has changed and yet not. In crime dramas there is often no dignity of any kind, but it often goes unremarked. Wallander was one I felt went too far on more than one occasion. There are tough female characters too, as in Happy Valley, but generally woman as victim without detail omitted doesn't do is any favours

Yes forgive me for thinking you'd respect a woman that hast just died.

Yes. But they wrote it completely differently to you.

And no, what you say about the first post on MN is incorrect. It's usually described as 'nails it' it's quite the opposite to what you wrote.

I'm not claiming to have 'nailed it' but I didn't shoehorn it in either, nor is it gratuitous.

I've got the original Richard Hooker novel somewhere, but don't think I've ever read it. It's short, so I might have a go this weekend. I have a theory about it that I want to confirm.

This intrigued me. Will you come back and post your thoughts after you’ve read it @SionnachRuadh ?

Your comment about Alan Alda playing the murderer if he’s being helpful made me laugh too. It’s so true.

yes.
it was set in the 50s. In a military camp. Which was a time that was incredibly sexist.
Do you have trouble reading things like Pride and Prejudice?

Unfortunately, in the later episodes where it tried to soften the sexism a bit, it also became much more platitudinous and smug in the ways in which it expressed all of its various values, including the attempts at anti-sexism. It lost more and more of the edginess and black humour that made the film (and the earlier episodes of the series) compelling and satirical. Like lots of US comedies it just felt like being at school and getting preached at about fairness etc.

I know I'm being a bit of a curmudgeon here - damning it both ways. I suppose that precisely because I enjoyed it as a child I feel angry with it for not being better.

Even the film was just a poor man/poor woman version of the brilliant (and probably also sexist) novel Catch 22, which I think I am due to re-read, having not read it for decades.

In what way was she not respected?

Time for Corporal Klinger?

Loved Clinger.

Apparently discussing a woman's work, and how she had a positive influence on a phenomenally sexist TV series is not respecting her.

Even the film was just a poor man/poor woman version of the brilliant (and probably also sexist) novel Catch 22, which I think I am due to re-read, having not read it for decades.

A favourite of mine when I was younger, which I haven't revisited for years.

Eccentrically enough, my favourite Heller novel is Good As Gold, which hardly anyone remembers. Maybe it's aged badly by being rooted in a very specific time (post-Watergate) and space (NYC Jewish intellectual life). There are characters who are very thinly veiled versions of real people.

From memory, there's some sexism in it, mostly from the protagonist (obviously Heller himself), but it's mitigated by the protagonist being quite an unsympathetic character to begin with.

It's based on the books, which were of their time, and the film was less sexist than the books, and the tv series less sexist than the film.

This is rather like complaining about the Carry on Films, it was part of the journey to get where we are and women like Loretta Swit helped drag culture kicking and screaming towards a better place. Good for her. She made the character of Margaret a very strong one.

Rather than try to dismiss and hide the past it seems more helpful to help women and girls now to notice it, see it for what it was at the time as part of attitudes and restrictions around women, and hopefully then they might realise that while there's a bit more virtue signalling these days, women are still expected for example to hand opportunities and awards to men who want to be women, and to say they don't want privacy/dignity. Which really is no different to expecting women to find it funny when the frat blokes run in to the shower tent, or pull the side of the shower tent down to expose them for a good jolly jape.

Let's face it, these days those nurses would be expected to welcome Corporal Klinger into their showers and shut up. Not that much has really changed at all.

I think the guardian writer is absolutely wrong when it says her character was a one dimensional sex mad bimbo. That does not reflect her character AT ALL.
Her sexual relationship wuth frank is just one element of her.

Yes, Mash is very much a diluted version of Catch 22. Catch 22 was horribly misogynistic if I remember correctly, though it's decades since I've read it.

I've also read Good as Gold, though I remember very little about it.

Rather than try to dismiss and hide the past it seems more helpful to help women and girls now to notice it, see it for what it was

But I don't want to dismiss and hide the past - either the period in which MASH is set or the period in which it was made. I don't think anyone on the thread has suggested it be cancelled . I'm glad it is still shown, both for its good points and as a snapshot of past iterations of sexism. And I certainly agree that there are lots of ways in which things are as bad or worse today.

I think that what gets to me (EDIT: and what makes MASH so much more annoying than Carry On) is not so much the sexism in itself but the combo of being so sexist and so complacently righteous (something that is certainly present in today's version of sexism 😏)

When the movie and TV industries got a little bit better (over the last decade or two) about including female characters that are actual people and not just props and stereotypes, I started to see more clearly how totally infuriating it was all through my childhood and youth to grow up with such a stultifying range of women in films and telly. I can't believe now that I kind of accepted it then as the way of the world, presumably because I internalised the lesson that women just don't get to be central characters in their own lives.

Believe it or not I felt grateful when the representation of women started to change - as if the men were doing us a favour to throw us a few crumbs.

There was that episode where Hawkeye had a bottle of wine & wanted nurses to compete to share it with him, & Margaret led them in taking him down a peg.

Or the ones that looked at her relationship with the nurses. Looking back, I think they were some of my favourites.

I think that what gets to me (EDIT: and what makes MASH so much more annoying than Carry On) is not so much the sexism in itself but the combo of being so sexist and so complacently righteous (something that is certainly present in today's version of sexism 😏)

It's the American liberal style, isn't it? Which I've never quite got along with.

I know there's lots in Carry On that's aged badly, but I'll admit to a fondness for it. Because of the actors, because of Talbot Rothwell's scripts, because it captures a time in British culture. Also, when Sid James and Bernie Bresslaw are playing against each other, their characters are never stated to be Jewish, but you can see them leaning into the classic setup of Sid as the fast-talking schemer and Bernie as the nice boy who suffers from involvement in Sid's schemes.

(Also, in certain contexts familiar to FWR regulars, I can't help thinking of the times Bernie wears drag and all the men find him irrestistible)

But I like the times when it's apparent that the women are the clever and capable characters, and you know the lecherous men will come a cropper in the end. It's that British style of humour where desire is always unfulfilled and coitus permanently interruptus, and that's probably for the best.

Also, life hack: if you're in a particularly low mood, it can help to read the Kenneth Williams diaries. Some time with Kenny's hypochondria and self-loathing just might make you feel better.

Loved the show for it's anti-war attitude - have to remember how revolutionary that was at the time. They were young men, far away from their families and yes, being sexist pigs. They are portrayed as drunken, dirty young slobs. Their accommodation is referred to as the swamp, while Margaret keeps her tent tidy. Margaret is portrayed as the older, regular army person - more serious. Still remember the episode in which one of the soldiers tries to tell her she isnt a real major and she puts him in his place. A pity she put on the dress, that seemed to me to be out of character.

Yes the role evolved and it became somewhat less sexist but Margaret was always a strong, efficient woman standing up against slobby young men. She represented the army, the young men were always going to react to that.

Quite. I think the OP was very respectful of her, recognising her work in a challenging place.

I was just about to cite this series but couldn’t remember the name, and ‘also ‘Bodies’ before it in the early 2000s.
In fairness tho, gallows humour and de-sensitising from patients as living beings is probably quite important in order to do a good job. It’s also a very intense environment that appear to lend itself to lots of intimate/ interpersonal relationships and boundary crossing - many with gender /staus power imbalances one would assume.

As a young girl, her no-bullshit attitude really influenced me and I loved her. Some of the early episodes have not aged well in terms of misogyny and the glorification of laddish behaviour but there are still some gems.

Well said.

@SionnachRuadh

I think you'll find there's plenty of that combination in the Labour Party too (though it galls me to say it).