Parents all onboard with gender woo

[FFSAllTheUserNamesHaveBeenTaken]

My DD has told us she is non-binary and wants to use they/them pronouns. We listened and asked questions, “what does non-binary mean?” She couldn’t explain fully, so I think it’s as much wanting to be part of a tribe and liking similar things as much as anything else. She is also ND. She has chosen a boys name but didn’t talk about wanting to be a boy. We’ve carried on using her real name, she hasn’t said anything, all going fine.
I didn’t really think any more of it so I got a shock when one of her friend’s mum referred to her by her boy name. I guess her friends correct them if they use the wrong name. I don’t want other parents feeling compelled to buy into the pronoun nonsense and affirming things making it more difficult for DD to change her mind at a later date. What is really concerning me is that when I mentioned the name change in a neutral way it was clear they are all fully affirming of gender woo.

I can see why she would want to be non-binary as she doesn’t fit the girly-girl image. I had taken the view that it is probably a phase but hadn’t anticipated all her friends parents supporting it too. There is a lot going on for DD at the moment and her mental health isn’t great, she doesn’t need to be dragged into this but the whole trans thing seems to be a shiny magnet.

How the hell do I help steer DD through this, to be comfortable in her own skin, to apply some critical thinking to see the trans nonsense for what it is?

You have absolutely no idea, and this sort of attitude really pisses me off and needs to stop if we are going to support adolescents who identify as trans and those who care for them. We might think this is rubbish but their distress (and their beliefs) are real and they need to be supported, not ridiculed. They are usually vulnerable in some way and this is them making sense of difficult feelings of not fitting in.

I agree.

I can't imagine my child expressing distress like this and responding by laughing at them. I could never be so cruel to them.

I feel like some people on this forum put being gender critical before being a good parent.

I know this is hard, but you have already said your DD is ND - this is a common factor among female to male transgender desires. I think you need to deal with this with sensitivity and kindness. It is not going away any time soon.

What to you is "gender woo" is profoundly important to them. If you want to do what is best for them you need to walk alongside them while they deal with this.

Your feeling that it is about finding a tribe probably does have an element of truth in it, as they are exposed to a lot of discussion about this at present. But that does not mean it can be dismissed as unreal - it is very real indeed to them.

I have a close family member in a similar situation and whilst I do not fully understand it all (and have said so) I have made it very clear that I love them and am on their team come what may.

You are treading a difficult path here and need to so so with care. One thing your DD will need as they negotiate this minefield is a mother who they know is by their side.

Their distress is real? ... Caused by?

Their beliefs are real? Possibly, but these beliefs are at best false ("I am not the sex I was born") and at worse simply and foolishly incoherent nonsense ("I am non-binary)".

Feelings of not fitting in? Like every adolescent since Adam was a lad. Sure.

They need support, Of course they do. And the most sensible form of support is to be told the truth -- not some equally incoherent babble from a believer in twaddle.

@persoe i so wish I lived in your bubble where autistic and distressed young people can be put on the right path by being told to get over themselves. As a gender critical parent of a trans identifying autistic child the last few years have been awful. If I’d taken your approach I would have no relationship with my child. And yes, her distress and beliefs are ver real thanks. As usual the majority GC community are offering no support or alternatives. If you actually care about women’s rights and child safeguarding I suggest you educate yourself rather than assume it’s an unfortunate byproduct of permissive parenting.

I'm sorry the last few years have been so awful for you. Likewise your child and all the other children who have faced difficulties, psychological or physical.

Thinking of support for these children, though, how could it possibly be helpful to support a child's belief if that belief is simply untrue or wholly incoherent?

It's something of commonplace point by now, but still: would you support a child's belief she was fat whilst actually she was starving herself and dangerously underweight? Of course not. So for a girl's belief she was a boy, mutatis mutandis.

And I'm still a bit gobsmacked at the idea of a 13-year-old telling her parent(s) something about herself in the way the OP had it, and parents taking the assertion with a particular kind of seriousness. Again, think of a child telling her mother she was fat when she was actually underweight. Similar difficulties ensue?

I don't assume the difficulties you and your child suffer are "... an unfortunate byproduct of permissive parenting". You are not to blame, that seems clear. Blame belongs squarely on those - mostly men - who for various (often nefarious) reasons have promulgated an ideology with such dreadful consequences for children in particular.

It doesn't follow from that, however, that it's in any way sensible to try to take seriously a child's incoherent belief, for instance that she is "non-binary".

This is not really about being 'gender critical' at all: that just feeds into an assessment of the truth-value of what the child in question averred. Rather it's just about plain common sense. "Mum, I'm an Oompalumpa! ... that's what I identify as!", however vulnerable, however non-neurotypical the child, calls for the same response as "Mum, I'm non-binary! ..."

No?

@perso - I don’t support her belief, but that doesn’t make it go away. I wish it did. I have in no way supported social transition, but at 17 she is now making decisions herself that put her on that road. There are very few suggestions of how we can deal with this other than affirming ( which obviously isn’t evidence based).

This all started at about 12 whe she started saying she was trans - I made it very clear what my views are but nothing has changed in the last 5 years.
And often they ARE distressed - there are confused, ND individuals who are experiencing a lot more than teenage angst. For my DD I think partly it is about finally finding a group where she feels she can fit in, which in turn becomes an echo chamber.
i’ve often made the comparison with an eating disorder - no, you wouldn’t agree with them, but they genuinely believe they are fat and it is a symptom of a serious mental health issue. Telling them to eat up and get over themselves is unlikely to help. At least with an eating disorder the world at large and the medical profession recognize the individual needs support to change their thinking (although know this is often very difficult and am in no way underplaying the dangers and difficulties of eating disorders) but there are so few options for parents of trans children who don’t support transition.

It doesn't follow from that, however, that it's in any way sensible to try to take seriously a child's incoherent belief, for instance that she is "non-binary"

I think a decent parent takes their child's pain seriously. This doesn't mean blindly supporting transition and affirming their new gender but it means understanding that your child is communicating something very important to them to you.

Do you really think that being dismissive of this is going to make the child's feelings go away?

Again, think of a child telling her mother she was fat when she was actually underweight

Your anorexic analogy is quite odd. It reads like you are suggesting that parents shouldn't take a anorexia in children seriously because the child isn't really fat. Would you roll your eyes at an anorexic child and say "you're not fat don't be stupid" and expect this to cure them?

I'm in the same boat with my 13 year old, but its been a year now of being non binary and wanting to use they/them pronouns. I just avoid using pronouns altogether when in her company because I find it almost impossible to say 'they' when talking about someone I gave birth to and have known for 12 years as a girl. Sometimes I feel like if I just gave in and said ok fine this is what you are then it wouldnt be cool or rebellious anymore and she would go back, but Im really reluctant to reinforce anything that may lead down the road of surgeries etc (some nb people do this)

Luckily she hasnt wanted to change her obviously feminine name or anything like that. Another girl in her friend group is also a now a 'boy' despite making zero attempt to even dress in a sterotyically male fashion or change anything about her appearance. When I try to ask my child what exactly makes this person a boy I just get 'because thats how he feels' and it's phobic to even ask that question, end of story, no debate. Its infuriating

This gender belief system really is insidious for the ND kids. My family DID laugh at our DD when she tried to educate her father and I about trans. She was angry at first, but a few years later she fully peaked and is now a grown woman who is a strong rad fem. She says our reaction was the best thing because we'd typically been so supportive of many of her fledging ideas but when we'd dismiss or laugh at a few, it made her question why. So, this nibbled at her brain which eventually matured to see reality. Plus, some shit experiences due to her being a girl solidified the differences between the sexes.

However...DD is not ND, so social intelligence and nuances of thought come easier to her. So, she knew we were making fun of the concept, not fun of her. I don't think this is as easy for ND kids...in some ways, their sensitivities cloud these distinctions. My two cousins have ASD and their black-and-white thinking make many things difficult to navigate - like white lies and when to break social rules. They can get stuck in ruts.

So, OP, isn't it critical to explicitly explain the "rules" to DD, especially because she's ND? Tell her that non-binary is something that is made up and not healthy. That changing her name or asking for pronouns do not change her into being a new category of human. That she is a girl and she will eventually become a woman and that can never change. That all 13 year olds, regardless of how they feel, are only either a boy or a girl. There's nothing in the middle, there's no other category.