Boss sent me GT video and now seething

[TotesLegit]

so something happened at work this lunchtime and Im absolutely seething 😡😡😡

there was a discussion at our workplace about the bathrooms and labeling. i get all my information from MN so have been very clear that transwomen are not women because its basic actual science!!! 🙄

at lunchtime my boss sent me an email with a link to this video of some lefty looney and asked me to watch it its only short so I did and am furious at what my boss is implying and attacking my views and the view of science!

to save you having to watch the whole thing the bits that are most offensive is a reference to , the fact the Cambridge bloody dic has a defintion of woman that , the suggestion that people like us just want to be the center of our , and most insulting of all is the suggestion that we are anti-trans because our sense !

what i want to do is reply to my boss and quit but that seems like hes won and my opinion counts for nothing! 😡😡😡

AIBU?

Yes, that's good.

And then I'd have one of Helen Joyce ready to go depending on his response.

Perfect!

This is the way.

Send him the Germaine Greer quote: "I've asked my doctor to give me long ears and liver spots and I'm going to wear a brown coat but that won't turn me into a f*ing cocker spaniel!"

Blimey, TotesLegit, what kind of a workplace is that - you make a point about toilet provision and your boss sends you a video by the Professor in the Department of Comparative Literature and the Program in Critical Theory at University of California, Berkeley misinterpreting Simone de Beauvoir!

It really was a ridiculously OTT response to what you said, and as other posters have pointed out, not only ridiculous but legally incorrect as well.

The one-liner suggested above is a really good reply, it puts the ball in his court.

What about this in any follow up exchanges:
Could you explain the relevance of an American Professor discussing French Existentialism to our workplace?
and even more to the point
Could you explain the relevance of an American Professor discussing French Existentialism to UK laws and building regulations regarding toilet provision?

I would take the weekend to calm down and think what you want to do in the workplace. The video as a pp says is shiny but also highly disingenuous, conflating different issues and needs as if they are the same.

It does say that sex remains important in medical and legal considerations. I agree. It never says that sex is fluid or changeable because it's not. Frankly the video has absolutely nothing to do with appropriate and legal workplace facilities in the UK.

Tbh I wouldn't try arguing with him or the Berkley soap bar herself. She's well practised at slipping examples of one thing into discussing something else, plus conflating or ignoring things that happened outside the timelines that she wants to use; shes no historian (the attack on Michfest and open issues with including transwomen in women's spaces did indeed begin in the 70s and 80s). I wouldn't send him Sex Matters videos or anything like that. With work stuff, keep focused on what you want the outcome to be.

Have a look at the written policy and consider your legal rights. And don't rush to say anything. Keep the email though.

Send him the supreme court judgement and ask him to read it.

Like his video, it's only short.

Then, as PP have said, he can explain why a US academic talking about French philosophy is relevant to UK law.

Agree that I'd forward the email to your personal account

And on the toilets policy I'd ignore the fact that it's mad and irrelevant, and concentrate on the fact that it's illegal.

I'd ignore the video and ask HR to explain why the labelling on the bathroom facilities are not compliant with the law (if indeed they are not). Butler is not to be taken seriously by anyone with half a brain cell, as an authority on anything...

This may help if you need legal backup.....
Workplace toilets: know your rights - Sex Matters

Thanks Arran, great quote - I can hear her voice as I read it.

People here always seem very eager for someone else to take a very aggressive position! It might feel satisfying to suggest that, but we wouldn't be the ones marching into combat.

I think it would be reasonable to thank the boss politely, but to say that you take the gender-critical viewpoint, without intending any detriment to anyone else. And point out that there are legal cases protecting that opinion (thinking of Forstater) and that the recent Supreme Court decision also supports you. This can all be totally polite, but if the boss-person has any brains at all, they're likely to read it as "Don't try anything".

I don't quite agree. People who properly understand the 'word soup' realise that Butler's arguments are far more fluid than soundbites suggest. She has a theory of gender, that's all. One of many.

What Butler hasn't done is poison children with drugs, perform irreversible surgery on vulnerable people, etc. Yes, she is an activist of sorts, but not the type who injures and attempts to silence people.

If there's anyone to condemn, it's a fringe of the medical profession and a cabal of public sector policy makers and administrators who have interpreted her philosophy in a way that serves them.

These people have prescribed the drugs, invented arbitrary rules that bear little resemblance to the theories they claim to be informed by, and overall demonstrate a level of extreme arrogance and ignorance.

But, yes, I do agree that this is an HR matter. This manager has completely and utterly overstepped the mark and needs a quiet word from above. Ideological bullying has no role to play in management.

It's possible to hold two positions in this debate. I am firmly on the 'side' of JK in all of this, but I also understand from reading her books that Butler is not the woman-hating monster that some feel she is.

I don't actually think she's a woman having monster, just that people use her obfuscatory language for their own purposes when they haven't read it or digested it, like the OP's boss. She does have a point on occasions.

Yes, I agree. I hope OPs manager realises this is not appropriate.

Butler is an academic and has some thought provoking ideas. She didn't write a "how to" manual, as trans activists seem to suggest.

Surely the only sensible reply to your boss sending you a Judith Butler video is to say:

"Sorry but I have no idea what Judith Butler is talking about in the video you sent me - none of it makes any sense whatsoever. Please can you explain?

Also, are you aware of the recent Supreme Court judgement that clarifies how women are adult females and employers are required to provide us with single sex toilet facilities. Here's a link to the judgement FYI supremecourt.uk/uploads/uksc_2024_0042_judgment_updated_16f5d72e76.pdf

Fuckity bye etc"

with HR on CC.

Quite, the TRAs wheel her out as 'a professor said this so it must be right ' when in fact on some occasions she didn't say what they mean.

I'm not a fan by any means but she seems to be a gotcha for them.

Either way, the email was inappropriate.

Judith Butler is a professor of gender studies with degrees in philosophy, not biology. Maybe your boss should read this by Richard Dawkins, who is an actual scientist: https://richarddawkins.com/articles/article/race-is-a-spectrum-sex-is-pretty-damn-binary.

However, I would avoid engaging in a debate. Instead, I would inform HR that your belief is protected under the law (Forstater case). It is inappropriate for your boss to send you videos that promote beliefs contrary to your own . This is comparable to sending a Christian video to a Muslim employee—it's intrusive, inappropriate and unrelated to your work. Your boss should not attempt to impose his personal beliefs in the workplace.

It's a misquote.

The full quote is from Simone De Beauvoir writing

"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman. No biological, psychological, or economic destiny defines the figure that the human female acquires in society; it is civilization as a whole that develops this product, intermediate between female and eunuch, which one calls feminine"

She is talking about a 'product' created by society, not the female sex.

It takes spectacular level of stupidity to confuse the two.

If people paid more attention to Call the Midwife, and less to Judith Butler, they would have a better chance of understanding feminism.

Perhaps refer your Boss to Series 8, Episode 4.

Who needs the abortion? Jeannie or Frank? Can they swap?

Dear Boss,

Thank you for that interesting video about gender. If you have time I'd be happy to give you a little lecture on how the speaker has misrepresented Simone de Beauvoir. Let me know if you're interested.

In the meantime,as per our discussion yesterday, the law says that toilet facilities are to be divided by biological sex not gender, and that unisex facilities are to be provided for anyone who doesn't feel able to use the provision for their biological sex. That should work for everyone and I hope that our company policies will follow the law as we could get in trouble otherwise.

Kissy poos,

Employee

(PS I'm really not serious about this one! don't get yourself into trouble at work)

I agree the confrontational approaches aren't especially conducive to continued emoyment. Which all the more reason for OP to not focus on (or even mention) personal GC views.

The point is the law. The company is breaking the law. Her boss is now haranguing her (as did people in the meeting) for stating the law and pointing out the risk to the company.

Her business-relevant facts against his irrelevant opinions.

Of all the extraordinary stories from work that get posted on FWR this seems the most mad!

I have no idea what sort of workplace it is, and whether there is a staff network or union to support employees (which i know could be totally transed).

How could anyone who is a "boss" behave in that way.

Even if anyone could understand Judith Butler, it is totally irrelevant what she says of thinks.

This is about UK laws and employment practices.

• This are the existing laws on provision of toilets in workplaces https://www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/workplace-facilities/health-safety.htm
• The interim guidelines based on the Supreme court ruling and are being followed by the Scottish Parliament etc., are https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment and clarify that single sex toilets are same biological sex
• haven't got the link but Maya Forstater case made it clear that employers (and their bosses) have to tread both trans supporters and sex based rights supporters as having equal status

If you have HR I would think you could at the least ask for a meeting or set out your concerns as a first step. And let them know that not only is what he did tantamount to bullying and abuse of his position as a superior to someone they have control over, but are also illegal.

As has been said on other threads putting it in writing seems a good idea, because even if this is resolved through HR giving him a reprimand you will want this should he again try to exceed the boundaries of his position.

Are there any other employees who share your views. It must be really isolating to have this happen.

But as others have said anyone who thinks quoting Judith Butler is a reational thing to do is clearly not a logical thinker. One she is in fact fairly obscure, but much loved by the Guardian etc., because her word salad makes her sound serious. But actually she is ridiculous. That's why there was a whole trend of getting ChatGPT to do a mock "how Judith Butler would describe how to peel a banana"! IMO the moment she is mentioned just skip over and move on to someone based in reality.

Just to add, that although differently interpreted we do have free speech in the UK, so your Boss had no right to try and "convert" you.

And it certainly isn't acceptable for a work place to try and tell employees how to think!

Hope you have feel able to take which ever action seems the best fit for you. And that you can have a good weekend.

I agree that it wouldn't be wise to go in with your studs showing, as they say in footie. A job is a job.

I think the one liner 'Why have you sent me this video?' is good, it is not at all aggressive and forces the boss to explain what he was trying to communicate with it; in so doing he may well reveal his insistence on flouting the SC ruling, and that's where it could get interesting.

But only IF the OP is in a position to, and wants to make an issue of it - there's nothing wrong with keeping your head down to keep your job, OP

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5097209-judith-butler-tells-lesbian-she-should-stay-home-if-she-doesnt-want-to-see-penises-in-female-only-spaces

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5302589-chatgpt-describes-how-to-butter-toast-in-the-style-of-judith-butler