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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times article: Hospital managers ‘ignore Supreme Court trans ruling’

38 replies

RoyalCorgi · 28/05/2025 19:40

NHS managers think they're above the law, apparently:

https://www.thetimes.com/article/18be21b2-89c9-4ce3-9710-41a818169159?shareToken=09d843ffb1bca59651ef8d92180a4cc0

And, in a nice touch, this is the same hospital where Nurse Jennifer Melle was disciplined because she referred to a convicted paedophile as "he".

Hospital managers ‘ignore Supreme Court trans ruling’

Bosses tell staff policies will not change until NHS England responds to the legal decision

https://www.thetimes.com/article/18be21b2-89c9-4ce3-9710-41a818169159?shareToken=09d843ffb1bca59651ef8d92180a4cc0

OP posts:
TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 28/05/2025 19:56

Thanks for sharing.

“group chief people officer” now that's a job that needs to go, in what way does that serve the core directive of the NHS, which is to provide care to people who are sick or injured and nurse them back to health.

Everything the 'people officer' said is a programmed response, she part of the hivemind, she just reading straight of the post-modernism script, how much is our we paying her, because it's way too much.

With any luck Nurse Jennifer Melle case will cost them so much they'll be forced to review their blatant disregard for the law.

Needspaceforlego · 28/05/2025 19:58

Just wait until one of them ends up in court. Then they'll all change their tune.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 28/05/2025 19:59

That includes our transgender staff, patients and community members, as well as those whose gender identity is non-binary or different from the sex they were assigned at birth.”

sex assigned at birth 🤪🤪🤪

I wonder if NHS England will get round to this before they’re abolished & staff dispersed

TheOtherRaven · 28/05/2025 20:07

As always, starkly shameful that their wonderful performative values of 'dignity, compassion and respect' and their 'everyone' doesn't include women.

YourPerfectCousin · 28/05/2025 20:08

People Officer is one step away from Office of People from W1A.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/05/2025 20:11

It makes me so bloody angry that the people who do this immediately jump to "we'd better not do anything right now in case it later turns out we were unfair to trans people" and never acknowledge that to avoid the possibility of being unfair to trans people and possibly not meeting their legal obligations to trans people, they are taking actions that mean they certainly will be unfair to women and certainly will not be meeting their legal obligation to women.

Or to put it more succinctly "we are happy to fuck over the women for sure rather than risk the possibility we might fuck over the trans people"

NewForestMum123 · 28/05/2025 20:16

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 28/05/2025 19:56

Thanks for sharing.

“group chief people officer” now that's a job that needs to go, in what way does that serve the core directive of the NHS, which is to provide care to people who are sick or injured and nurse them back to health.

Everything the 'people officer' said is a programmed response, she part of the hivemind, she just reading straight of the post-modernism script, how much is our we paying her, because it's way too much.

With any luck Nurse Jennifer Melle case will cost them so much they'll be forced to review their blatant disregard for the law.

A Chief People Officer is a pretty standard role in large organisations. It’s just the term for essentially “the top HR boss”. Hard to run a company of thousands of employees (which most NHS Trusts are) without someone heading up that function.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/05/2025 21:36

RoyalCorgi · 28/05/2025 19:40

NHS managers think they're above the law, apparently:

https://www.thetimes.com/article/18be21b2-89c9-4ce3-9710-41a818169159?shareToken=09d843ffb1bca59651ef8d92180a4cc0

And, in a nice touch, this is the same hospital where Nurse Jennifer Melle was disciplined because she referred to a convicted paedophile as "he".

I guess this fact makes them on more of a sticky wicket than other NHS Trusts who haven’t discriminated against their nurses to pander to abusive racist male sex offenders who identify as women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/05/2025 21:38

It would basically be an admission of liability for them.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 28/05/2025 21:58

NewForestMum123 · 28/05/2025 20:16

A Chief People Officer is a pretty standard role in large organisations. It’s just the term for essentially “the top HR boss”. Hard to run a company of thousands of employees (which most NHS Trusts are) without someone heading up that function.

How top is top, are we talking policy wonk top, because that would explain the reaffirmation of doctrine, if she's the one who's responsible for it.
CEOs and senior leaders often embrace DEI initiatives enthusiastically, driven by the allure of external recognition and awards. Such achievements can bolster their position during contract renegotiations, paving the way for more lucrative contract terms.
So how top is top.

DragonRunor · 28/05/2025 22:26

I really hope someone (else) sues both the Trust and Victoria Smith personally, if her Trust (with her encouragement) breaks the law

As pp said, Chief People Officer is an entirely necessary role in an organisation employing (recruiting/training/paying/planning for) thousands of people. The article may make readers question whether she is discharging her duties appropriately.

NewForestMum123 · 28/05/2025 22:26

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 28/05/2025 21:58

How top is top, are we talking policy wonk top, because that would explain the reaffirmation of doctrine, if she's the one who's responsible for it.
CEOs and senior leaders often embrace DEI initiatives enthusiastically, driven by the allure of external recognition and awards. Such achievements can bolster their position during contract renegotiations, paving the way for more lucrative contract terms.
So how top is top.

Literally top. The one single person at the very top of the whole of HR. Despite the click-bait headline, the article just reads as though this woman was sending out a reassuring staff comms, likely sparked by something internal (the Trust I work at hasn’t even mentioned the ruling and I’m not sure there’s an automatic reason that they should have).

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/05/2025 01:17

The “automatic reason” is that single sex spaces are for that sex only, that’s the Supreme Court judgement. Also note the Jennifer Melle case where a Black nurse is taking St Helier hospital to court as she alleges they disciplined her for not using a paedophile man’s lady pronouns. He called her the n word. “People Officer” that.

NewForestMum123 · 29/05/2025 07:13

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/05/2025 01:17

The “automatic reason” is that single sex spaces are for that sex only, that’s the Supreme Court judgement. Also note the Jennifer Melle case where a Black nurse is taking St Helier hospital to court as she alleges they disciplined her for not using a paedophile man’s lady pronouns. He called her the n word. “People Officer” that.

I understand what the ruling was, but I’m not sure why that automatically triggers a need for comms. Why do they have to mention it? You’re suggesting every single employer in the entire country needs to send a comms out to staff pledging their commitment to it?

Nothing in that article (despite the headline!) says that the Trust has any intention of going against the ruling. It quite clearly says they are waiting for guidance.

MoominUnderWater · 29/05/2025 07:18

She added: “Inclusion isn’t just a value we talk about — it’s something we live through our policies, our practice, and the way we treat one another, every day.

unless you’re a woman who doesn’t want to changed in front of a man and then you can get to fuck and if you kick up a fuss we will discipline you!

orangegato · 29/05/2025 07:39

About time these overpaid fuckwits were made personally liable for the inevitable payouts. They boil my piss. She needs sacking and banning from being paid public money. Shame she will be literally unemployable in the private sector.

RayonSunrise · 29/05/2025 07:54

You’ve clearly not worked in the private sector, @orangegato! There are plenty of “people officers,” it’s just the latest term for HR. Believe me, there’s loads of them out there.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 29/05/2025 08:00

orangegato · 29/05/2025 07:39

About time these overpaid fuckwits were made personally liable for the inevitable payouts. They boil my piss. She needs sacking and banning from being paid public money. Shame she will be literally unemployable in the private sector.

Hollow laugh

the majority of my friends and relatives work in large private sector organisations. One large law firm happily lets the TW who work there use the women’s toilets, another holds regular all company meetings where the trans staff get to tell everyone how to perform their allyship and let’s TW into the menopause support group

in my experience the split is not public/private but large/small. Large public bodies and large corporates are all fully on board and have money to spend on all this while small companies/orgs are just trying to survive

RayonSunrise · 29/05/2025 08:21

Not even large/small, @Theeyeballsinthesky- I was at a start-up a few years ago that was also all-in, partially because tech and partially because the (American) investors insisted that the company keep stats to show how diverse they were and encourages them to meet all the American-style inclusion standards, like “all-gender” toilets. Fortunately in a tiny start-up there tends to be one or 2 unisex toilets anyway, all they had to do was change the terminology.

The regular staff survey tracking sex, sexuality and ethnicity by dept was considerably more problematic - hard to anonymise responses when you’re tracking the “gay black cis woman in Sales”, etc.

RoyalCorgi · 29/05/2025 09:29

NewForestMum123 · 29/05/2025 07:13

I understand what the ruling was, but I’m not sure why that automatically triggers a need for comms. Why do they have to mention it? You’re suggesting every single employer in the entire country needs to send a comms out to staff pledging their commitment to it?

Nothing in that article (despite the headline!) says that the Trust has any intention of going against the ruling. It quite clearly says they are waiting for guidance.

They don't need to wait for official guidance. The ruling was clear. They simply need to obey the law. Sending out an email to everyone with lots of virtue-signalling nonsense about "inclusion" is a statement that they intend to defy the law for as long as they possibly can.

The fact that this is the same trust that disciplined Jennifer Melle for misgendering a paedophile tells you exactly where their sympathies lie.

OP posts:
Grammarnut · 29/05/2025 09:55

Whether the man Nurse Melle called he (which is correct) is a paedophile doesn't have any relevance to the case. The case is that he objected to being called 'he' in a place where his sex mattered. She then said that her Christian faith (which I share with her btw) would not allow her to call him 'her' - she wouldv'e been better off pointing out that his sex mattered in a medical situation and she was giving necessarily biologically correct information to another health worker. Citing religion where it is irrelevant is not helpful.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/05/2025 10:35

NewForestMum123 · 29/05/2025 07:13

I understand what the ruling was, but I’m not sure why that automatically triggers a need for comms. Why do they have to mention it? You’re suggesting every single employer in the entire country needs to send a comms out to staff pledging their commitment to it?

Nothing in that article (despite the headline!) says that the Trust has any intention of going against the ruling. It quite clearly says they are waiting for guidance.

They have the guidance. Do they think the EHRC put this out for fun?

RoyalCorgi · 29/05/2025 10:43

Grammarnut · 29/05/2025 09:55

Whether the man Nurse Melle called he (which is correct) is a paedophile doesn't have any relevance to the case. The case is that he objected to being called 'he' in a place where his sex mattered. She then said that her Christian faith (which I share with her btw) would not allow her to call him 'her' - she wouldv'e been better off pointing out that his sex mattered in a medical situation and she was giving necessarily biologically correct information to another health worker. Citing religion where it is irrelevant is not helpful.

Hmm, does it have relevance that the guy is a paedophile? Well, in one way no. She almost certainly didn't know he was a paedophile at the time she misgendered him. And even if she had done, you could argue that if the NHS adopts a principle that people have the right to choose their own pronouns, then that right extends to the most unsavoury members of our society, including those who have sexually abused children.

But if you look at it another way, it is relevant, because it shows the utter absurdity and immorality of the NHS's position. Does anyone really believe that this male sex offender believes himself to be a woman? How humiliating to force a female nurse to respect the whims of a man who is so morally depraved. It shows an attitude of contempt on the part of the NHS towards its own staff.

I agree in part with your point about religion. The nurse could have said, perfectly reasonably, that it is factually accurate to refer to him as a man, and that furthermore, it is essential in a medical environment that patients are referred to by their correct sex.

But she might also argue that Christianity is a protected belief under the Equality Act, and therefore the trust is guilty of discriminating against her on two grounds - that of her gender-critical belief and that of her religious belief. So from a legal perspective, it makes the case more interesting. Itf she wins, it opens the way to anyone with a religious belief (including Islam or Judaism) to take legal action against an employer who forces them to comply with gender ideology.

OP posts:
NewForestMum123 · 29/05/2025 19:34

RoyalCorgi · 29/05/2025 09:29

They don't need to wait for official guidance. The ruling was clear. They simply need to obey the law. Sending out an email to everyone with lots of virtue-signalling nonsense about "inclusion" is a statement that they intend to defy the law for as long as they possibly can.

The fact that this is the same trust that disciplined Jennifer Melle for misgendering a paedophile tells you exactly where their sympathies lie.

Is there any evidence they are breaking the law? Nothing from that article gives any information on how they approach changing rooms and toilets etc. I can see why they want to wait for the guidance from their official oversight body because this is such a political hot potato, particularly in light of the fact they’ve clearly fucked up before.

Your assumptions about their intention doesn’t change the information provided. Don’t fall for click bait headlines.

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