Have I completely misunderstood GCSE biology...

[proximalhumerous]

...or is the purpose of spotting an anomaly not specifically to disregard it in order that it doesn't lead to an inaccurate conclusion?

If so, why is everyone fixating on DSDs as "proof" that sex is a spectrum, when the anomalous 1.7% (if indeed it is as high as that - from what I've read that figure is only achieved if you include conditions such as PCOS which have a tenuous claim at best to be one of the "intersex" variations) is clearly a set of results that don't fit. Because something has deviated from the norm. It's not like calculating the mean of a range of heights, FFS.

Please can someone more scientific than me explain what is going on here? Or is it simply that certain factions are so hell-bent on arguing that anyone with ladyfeels can be a woman they're happy to completely disregard any sort of science or logic in order to do so?

btw, yes, I know 'intersex' is an offensive and inaccurate term.

I'm also grimly aware when the report claims that people with whatever conditions they mention may be victims of infanticide, just how many female babies are killed, and female foetuses aborted, worldwide.

Yes it is interesting reading on DSD where it is clear that each specific DSD is associated with one specific sex - this is a boy with …. This is a girl where …. The sex is known

The accepted global medical position is that humans are NOT a strict binary, as evidenced by the 240,000,000 people alive today with intersex traits or incongruence

Does this include women with PCOS which idiots people so often like to claim is an "intersex" disorder. In which case it actually 239,999,999 as I'm not intersex. I'm female. Well less than that as you can remove all the other women with this condition.

Totally unrelated, but whenever people mention Dr Robert Winston my brain immediately thinks "that guy's a hero, saving all those Jewish kids". Then I realise I'm thinking of Nicholas Winton.

Edited as duplicate post.

There has been so much unscientific nonsense spouted here today that I wouldn't be surprised to see all pre-pubertal children and post-menopausal women thrown into the mixer.

240 million is nearly 3% of the earth's population.
Is antsInTheirPants claiming 3% of people are neither male or female but somewhere in between?

In the case of some very rare dsds it can take some time and the ‘classification’ is done in consultation with the person and/or their family as to which gender is selected. So it can be a choice basically because very occasionally it’s not as clear cut as you think.

Known as the 'common as redheads' Fausto - Sterling nonsense and thoroughly debunked

Most are like that.

Common as redheads always confuses me. Does it mean common as redheads in Scotland or Ireland, or in Asia and Africa and South America etc?

Are there supposed to be 240,000,000 redheads on the planet?

Which aren't?

@andtheworldrollson
Except when the issue is 46XX Ovotesticular issues and cases when there are NO sex markers

@Waitwhat23

Well....the UN ohchr, NHS and every oversight body that state an incidence rate , state intersex traits at 1.7%

The GMC state incidence for incongruence to be about 1%

So, together that would be about THREE times the rate for red hair.

If you don't like those figures, write to the bodies and tell me how they reply

You keep saying this. Link your sources please. Not just a generic 'the NHS says so' but specific links.

Russell's teapot and all that.

@Waitwhat23

Ps.....the 1.7% DOESN'T list PCOS.

It includes 46xx hyperandrogenism and Congenital Adult Hyperplasia as conditions causing intersex traits.

@Underthinker
The UN ohchr, NHS and every oversight body that cite a figure for incidence of intersex traits - cite 1.7%

The GMC cite incidence rate for Incongruence as about 1% .

So, put together that means about 240,000,000 people alive today with intersex traits or incongruence.

If you just don't like those figures, write to the sources and complain. Let me know how you get on.

@Underthinker

Amazingly.....if you open the ohchr pages on intersex people, from memory the figure is cited in the first paragraph.
The NHS pages on DSDs cite the figure on the first page.
I'm sure that even your search engine can find those pages.

Uh huh.

Links please.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

Where is 1.7% stated on this page?

Practical Approach to Hyperandrogenism in Women - PMC https://share.google/22vaq12FbGLn7UHdQ

"PCOS is by far the most common cause of hyperandrogenism in women, thus most of the genetic data on hyperandrogenism in women stem from PCOS studies. "

Edit: oh and your 1% "incongruence" figure, you are just lumping in people who say they're trans or NB to bolster your numbers right?

@Helleofabore
I was just wondering if you'd actually checked what histological evidence of ovulation is? You know, the histological evidence in the Parvin case.
The same histological evidence that would be for ANYONE who ovulated.

@Underthinker

I know what the listed conditions were and what they included. That's specifically why I corrected the earlier post as to what was ACTUALLY listed.

But, what point are you trying to make?

The incidence rate includes all conditions that produce intersex traits.

@Underthinker
If YOU don't like the figure that the GMC state for incongruence.....write to the GMC.

(I didn't use the term "trans". If you want to 'check' something, please try to be accurate about it)

Your argument is that sex isnt binary because 3% of people are neither male or female. But almost all of those, the trans people, the NB people, those with PCOS, etc and all the more common DSDs are unambiguously male or female. Only the rarest of DSDs require serious investigation to determine sex.

The 1.7% comes from Fausto Sterling. Here she is 'revisiting' her original article.

https://www2.kobe-u.ac.jp/~alexroni/IPD%202016%20readings/IPD%202016_3/FAUSTO_STERLING-2000-The_Sciences%205%20sexes%20revisited.pdf

"On the basis ofthat evidence, we calculated that for every 1,000 children born, seventeen are intersexual in some form. That number-1.7 percent-is a ballpark estimate, not a precise count, though we believe it is more accurate than the 4 percent I reported. Our figure represents all chromosomal, anatomical and hormonal exceptions to the dimorphic ideal."

Where else do you think the 1.7% figure came from @Anteater1 to be confident about what it does and does not include.