Resources/articles on de-bunking the biological or neurological reasons for being trans.

[jeaux90]

I am openly GC, on Facebook and at work etc. I am in tech which to date has been a bit of a cesspool for Gender Ideology.

Feels like since the SC ruling some old arguments are coming back up around brain scans showing TW have similar brains to females, or there is a biological reason for it.

Anyone have good/recent studies or articles on this?

I don't - but I think the right response is "so what?". So what if it were shown that statistically, as a group, trans identified males differ from other males in some subtle aspect of their brain? They differ in much larger and more obvious ways from women.

I don’t, but I do think that once it was suggested that if brains were different it would be useful to do these scans prior to any gender affirming care, some started to have second thoughts about its promotion.

If there were reliable evidence that there were physical reasons for being trans it would have been front and centre of all the arguments. I think the lack speaks for itself.

https://x.com/NeuroSGS/status/1549324206437011458 (nitter link)

This is a good Twitter thread which explains the research and the problem that most of these brain studies have in not controlling for confounding variables like sexual orientation and hormone treatment.

Yes, another good explanation here https://www.theparadoxinstitute.com/read/debunking-the-brain-sex-hypothesis-excerpt-from-binary

I also don't have a link to the studies, but from memory of the one I read most about, the difference was in one area of the brain. So if it was argued that one area of the brain is a factor in determining sex, how relevant is it when all the other biological markers show a person to be the other sex?

But crucially for me, a biological basis for being trans (should one be found) is just that - a biological basis for being trans. It does not mean a person is biologically the other sex.

"It’s been shown that individuals with GD show weaker structural & functional connectivity within the default mode network (DMN) of the brain, which is vital for body perception/image and self referential processing."

Now that sounds relevant to me as a trans person! An anomaly in body perception/image is exactly how I would describe my gender dysphoria.

There is no evidence of any underlying difference in the brains of “trans” people whether they have GD, AGP or whatever. There is some evidence of differences in those who are same sex attracted.

It’s becoming increasingly clear that the only people with any sort of sex atypical cerebral differentiation occurs in homosexual individuals (on average).

I think (though it’s been a while since I read the literature, so I may be misremembering, but I don’t think I am) weak connectivity in that same area is also seen in people with anorexia.

I think we're not talking about the same thing? The difference in the default mode network is not linked to sex.

Yeah, I'm browsing the net for more information, and this has come up. It makes sense to me: in both cases, it's a matter of the person not seeing their body as it actually is.

I would have thought your tech background would give you an appetite for objective scientific appraisal of the phenomena.

Isn’t that everyone?

To some degree, possibly? But I don't think everyone experiences a disconnect with their actual body to the degree that, for example, anorexic people do?

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Dr Az Hakeem is really good on why people have trans identities and refers briefly to the evidence on different brains.

My personal view is that there is likely to be a 'medical' reason why some people have settled gender dysphoria in adulthood. But its certainly not that they have a female brain trapped in a male body. Why do only female brains end up in male bodies, why not female hearts or lungs or livers or femurs. Its such a silly idea.

Good to see some tools here to help with debunking this.

My argument when faced with this is normally to point out that if there were genuine biomarkers or significant differences, they would be used as part of the diagnostic process.

Given that diagnosis is still entirely based around self-reported feelings, there cannot have been any significant findings that would allow accurate identification of those who are “trans”.

Given the medical process is severe and damaging, if there was a real diagnostic tool, it would be in use.

Excelllent point.

That has always been my argument too.

I also point out the lengths that WPATH have gone to remove any indication in the DSM that trans is a medical condition (without completely removing it, because they need there to be something there otherwise US healthcare insurance won’t cover hormones and surgeries - they walk a fine line; it’s quite interesting.). If the supposed medical experts in the field (let’s assume they are what they identify as for the purpose of this argument; I don’t think they are, but anyway) do not want research done into possible medically verifiable causes for trans patients, despite wanting to be able to medically treat such patients, I personally start to wonder why. Is it because there is no such cause? Or that the only causes they can identify are so closely linked to mental health issues that we definitely do not treat with surgery? I haven’t dug deeply enough into this to have a solid opinion, but it does raise a hundred red flags to me.

@darkerit indeed does. But what is also does is prompt me to seek opinions of those in my peer group which is why I am posting here for varied opinions and responses. HTH

I too am open to the idea that there may be a difference in the brains of people with genuine gender dysphoria. I have a friend who has GD and says this is how it feels.
If such a thing was proven, great! It might pave the way for treatments to help those suffering.
But it does not mean that men are women, and it does not mean that anything should be changed at a societal level. Our society is organised based on body-sex. Even if a majority of people wanted to change it to 'brain-sex' instead, it wouldn't work. The only times when men and women are separated is when body-sex matters for safety/privacy (eg changing rooms), or when there is a demonstrable advantage to one sex in competitions, either due to physical attributes (eg rugby) or social conditioning based on how society treats body-sex (eg chess, positions on boards). None of that would be affected by brain-sex so reorganising would be pointless.

People’s perspective on this whole issue surely it depends whether you believe that gender is binary and that any variation from that should be treated as abnormal or an illness that needs treating, or that there are more than two forms of gender that are innate and a natural part of human diversity.

I haven't read this myself - maybe I'll actually order it this time instead of thinking 'that looks interesting' and forgetting about it🙄:

The Gendered Brain by Professor Gina Rippon

"The new neuroscience that shatters the myth of the female brain
An agenda-setting book that demolishes the myth of the male or female brain

‘This book is about an idea that has its roots in the eighteenth century and still persists in the twenty-first century. This is the notion that you can ‘sex’ a brain, that you can describe a brain as ‘male’ or ‘female’ and that you can attribute any differences in behaviour, abilities, achievements, personality, even hopes and expectations to the possession of one or the other type of brain...'"

Professor Gina Rippon - Author & Professor Emeritus of Cognitive NeuroImaging at Aston University, UK

I should have said in my post that the big problem with identifying any differences in adult brains is the fact that our brains change over our lifetime, and doing something a lot will develop the relevant part of the brain - the classic example is the changes in the brains of London taxi-drivers caused by constantly navigating their way around their mental map of London..

So I guess if someone 'does stereotype femininity' instead of 'doing stereotype masculinity' for long enough, that's could show up in their brain/brain activity.

Any perceivable differences in brains seem to be a result, not a cause..

I’m not sure if you are using “gender” to mean “sex” here.

Sex is binary, and gender (or gender expression or “personality”) is on a spectrum. In fact it is multi-dimensional spectrum as there are so many axes of variation between human beings.

Variation in gender expression is not an illness.

Believing your sex is the opposite of what it materially is, or believing you will be happy if you can surgically remove your secondary sexual characteristics, or take opposite sex hormones to grow breasts or facial hair easily meets the criteria for some sort of illness.

Sex is binary. It’s based on reproductive class. There are precisely two: male, and female. “Gender” is the socially constructed framework based on sex. That’s it.