Police could search women's homes and phones after pregnancy loss

[IwantToRetire]

Police have been issued guidance on how to search women’s homes for abortion drugs and check their phones for menstrual cycle tracking apps after unexpected pregnancy loss.

New guidance from the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) on “child death investigation” advises officers to search for “drugs that can terminate pregnancy” in cases involving stillbirths. The NPCC, which sets strategic direction for policing across the country UK, also suggests a woman’s digital devices could be seized to help investigators “establish a woman’s knowledge and intention in relation to the pregnancy”. That could include checking a woman’s internet searches, messages to friends and famil y, and health apps, “such as menstrual cycle and fertility trackers”, it states.

Details are also provided for how police could bypass legal requirements for a court order to obtain medical records about a woman’s abortion from NHS providers.

Abortion law in the UK is based on the Offences Against the Person Act from 1861. In recent years, an increasing number of women have been investigated and prosecuted under this law. The Abortion Act of 1967 allows women to end their pregnancies under medical supervision up to 24 weeks, or beyond in certain circumstances, such as if the life of the mother is at risk or if the foetus has a serious abnormality.

The guidance replace s a 2014 document that did not mention investigating stillbirths, but had one mention of investigating women who may have had an illegal abortion. The new guidance, published in January and developed by a sub-group of the NPCC’s Homicide Working Group alongside the College of Policing, National Crime Agency and Metropolitan Police, covers the scenario over several pages.

The lead authors were Ch Sup t Liz Hughes of Avon and Somerset police force; Det Sup t Jon Holmes of Lancashire; DCS David Ashton of Durham; Ch Sup t Fiona Bitters of Hampshire and Isle of Wight; Sonya Baylis, of the National Crime Agency; and D S Robert Simmons of Suffolk.

Article continues at https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/police-could-search-homes-and-seize-phones-after-sudden-pregnancy-loss

That's a good point. And there must be a fair amount amount of women who aren't 100% certain in the early day, have a conversation with their partner or a close friend to express their worries/concerns and who will then worry that such conversations will be used as evidence against them. Easy to see how that could be weaponised.

If that were the case, it’s the partner’s devices that need seizing and examining. Why are the woman’s actions thefocus of theinvestigation?

I know the Hampshire officer personally, and yes she know what being a woman includes but it's not for people to assume whether or not she's experienced a miscarriage or an abortion.

The reality is that we don't have abortion rights. We have permissive access to it.

If someone is suspected of unlawfully ending a pregnancy then yes, the police have the right to obtain a warrant to search for relevant evidence or to make an arrest thne carry our relevant searches @ just as in any other investigation.

I do get the points about men abusing and controlling women and have also come across (at work) women whose husbands have tried to deny them medical agency. I could quite believe some aspects of the input to this had good intentions.

I do not trust our police force not to take any advantage to abuse women. As well as the full on flashers, voyeurs, rapists and murderers in their ranks, see also spy cops, strip searching children and males strip searching women.

That is crazy!

I’m pro-choice because there are certain circumstances wherein I would choose abortion and therefore I can’t police any one else’s reasons. It needs to be the woman’s choice.

Extremely good point

Don't all our rights seem somewhat permissive? Especially when viewed globally.

We've just had the right to classify ourselves as a distinct class clarified and yet so many organisations, men and misogynist women are saying, essentially, they don't give us permission for even that.

Is there an epidemic of these, then?

I haven't read the article. But maybe its to stop women taking abortion drugs far too late and resulting in a life birth. It's all horrific IMHO. And a few infanticide cases have made the headlines recently.

Police can already investigate things like this if they have due cause, it seems they want it to be easier to do this. I wonder if the end goal is to be able to ask women and be permitted to investigate as a default rather than if there are reasons its suspected, which is horrific.

Doctors in the UK (I’m not sure about Ireland) have to check how many weeks a woman is pregnant before allowing an abortion. It wouldn’t be right for doctors to say yes to every abortion. Someone could be in their third trimester and aborting. Third trimester abortion is only allowed if the foetus has serious issues with it or mum would die because she has certain serious physical health issues.

No.

Of course they haven't. Only a woman of psychopathic cruelty could possibly endorse this.

It's another tactic designed to make women more isolated and vulnerable. In my view.

Police aren’t choosing to do this - the government is telling them to do this. There’s a big difference. Don’t shoot the messenger.

Because the woman’s phone might have a bunch of threatening texts on it indicating violence or coercive control while her partner or pimp would have a burner phone or something that they could dump somewhere.

So why would you need to confiscate a victim's phone to find this?

I guess because it could be considered evidence, it would also mean the woman couldn’t be pressured into destroying her phone by someone else, and lastly it’s possible she could be bombarded with phone threats from a gang who knows she was talking to police 🤷
Im just thinking off the top of my head here, my knowledge of police procedures comes from watching The Bill.

https://library.college.police.uk/docs/NPCC/Practice-advice-child-death-investigation-2024.pdf

I think that is the new Guidance. Published December 2024?

I did not know that the 'Offences to the Person Act' didn't exttend to Scotland.

'In England, Wales and Northern Ireland the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 contained the offence of administering drugs or using instruments to procure abortion (section 58) and the offence of procuring drugs to cause abortion (section 59). The Offences Against the Person Act 1861 has never
extended to Scotland. In Northern Ireland the section 58-59 offences were repealed in 201928. The offences remain in force as enacted in England and Wales.
The Abortion Act 1967 applies to England, Wales and Scotland and in certain circumstances makes lawful actions that would otherwise constitute offences in England and Wales under sections 58 and 59 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. '

that's a very charitable take on a force/country that has no interest in establishing and preserving women's rights.

then. Sieze. The. Man's. Phone. FGS it's not rocket science

the thing that stands out for me - this is under the Offences Against The Person act.

I can imagine enthusiastic plod really going to town searching some poor woman's flat because her partner shopped her to the police (whether or not she actually did anything)

But when that same woman was at the police station reporting coercive control, or physical violence... crickets.

We KNOW this is just another stick to beat women with while ignoring the real domestic problems.

How often does this happen that we need to have articles about it? compared to, say, killed women?

It's not necessiarly under the OATP Act. It depends on jurisdiction. The guidelines are worth a read.

There are unfortunately circumstances where a stillbirth will require investigation.

The guidelines repeatedly state that a woman's medical needs must take precedence, and that great care and sensitivity is needed, talk about vulnerability and support, etc.

Of course guidelines are open to misinterpretation and need to be tested rigorously for loopholes that could be abused by rogue officers, etc. Mention is made of the need for specially trained officers, and the need for a multi agency approach.

Here are the relevant search quotes:

'Search strategy

A search of relevant premises should be considered where it is suspected that an abortifacient has been taken to terminate a pregnancy outside of the legally permitted circumstances. The search objectives will be dependent on the information forming the basis of the cause for concern but will likely need to include abortifacient(s), packaging, documentation and empty medication blister packs.
...
'Evidence of knowledge and intention in relation to the pregnancy may be demonstrated through digital evidence. The seizure and examination of digital devices used by the woman during her pregnancy should be considered. Internet search history, digital communications with third parties, and health apps such as menstrual cycle and fertility trackers may all provide information to help investigators establish a woman’s knowledge and intention in relation to the pregnancy.
Many people are reliant on their digital devices to contact family and friends, and access other sources of information and support. Consideration must be given to the impact of seizing digital devices from a woman under investigation in these very difficult circumstances. Where it is necessary to seize digital devices lead investigators should consider providing the woman with a replacement device if the seizure of devices would inhibit access to family, friends or sources of support during the investigation, and there are no other means of communication available to the woman.'

DV is known to increase during pregnancy, and unfortunately stillbirth risks increase in abusive relationships:

'The new study also found links between stillbirth and abusive relationships. Women who declined to answer a question about domestic abuse were over 4x more likely to experience stillbirth (6.70% vs 2.61%) – but those who answered yes did not have a higher risk, possibly because their willingness to disclose this information to researchers meant they’d also done so to other external parties who could then intervene to protect mother and baby. '

www.manchester.ac.uk/about/news/higher-stillbirth-risk-for-mothers-experiencing-deprivation-unemployment-stress-and-domestic-abuse-in-pregnancy/

I haven't read the whole thread or even the article. But I can see some of the plus and negatives.

However I think the main concern is the we dont't trust the police anymore.

The basis for the change is probably based on a good reason but as we all know the police cannot always be trusted.

And I say this as a person who has good friends and relatives in the force, but also as someone who has watched as the whole "what is a woman" debate has escalated into levels of madness within our Police Forces.

What are the pluses in your view?