Mixed sex toilets at conference

[TheAmpleGreyMoose]

Work conference today and toilets are marked with diagram for male and female. Inside are sinks for all to use with toilet cubicles, ceiling to floor walls/door and lockable. I’ve not felt comfortable to use them after seeing a man exiting pulling up the fly on his trousers and for fear I’ll meet my senior/male boss in there.
I know the recent SC ruling isn’t all about toilets yet I’m wondering what, if any, reason I have to complain?
Grateful for your advice.

I personally wouldn’t care about this one jot if the doors were lockable from the inside only, there weren’t urinals and it was floor to ceiling wall and doors. You can put in feedback requesting separate toilets or ask work to hold the conference elsewhere next time if the venue only had one set of toilets, but I don’t think it’s grounds for a complaint whatsoever.

I think it is grounds for complaint. If it was self contained toilets with a basin and these opened out into a corridor, fine. But I wouldn't like mixed sex toilets either.

Not sure if either of these will help you as it as a workplace event but not held in the workplace.

This is the interim guidance from the EHRC following the Supreme Court ruling https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/interim-update-practical-implications-uk-supreme-court-judgment which includes a section on toilets

And this is a recent update from Sex Matters re toilets https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

Not sure if either of this will help with what you experienced as it it partly about male behaviour, but also about your workplace not thinking about the implication for employees sharing a facililty but not there as "equals". ie your boss behaving like an immature school boy.

@IwantToRetire
thank you. I’ll have read and think about the situation.

@BeEagerEagle
@Offeritup
Thanks for your comments.
It just felt odd coming out of the loo to stand side by side with someone of the opposite sex to wash hands/sort myself out in the mirror.
perhaps I need to reflect on why that was when I have no such qualms when it’s a women only toilet.

Don't beat yourself up about it - it's a different energy being around men. Nothing wrong with wanting single sex loos.

My preference would be for same sex toilets as well, I just don’t think it warrants a complaint.

Presumably the conference is over now so this is more about the future?

If it is a conference your work organized, then an email to HR stating that toilet provision was unsuitable and did not meet workplace requirements and asking that in the future venues be vetted to ensure provision met requirements so they didn't discriminate against women again. I would mention that some men failed to redress fully before exiting the cubicles and that there was nowhere private for women to deal with period blood or to adjust clothing or makeup in front of a mirror. Work places that organize conferences in a way that is less suitable for their female employees are engaging in discrimination, so you have some legal recourse, though you might need more than this to force change (I don't know) and, unfortunately, if they're recalcitrant then it's a difficult road to go down and the pay off is rarely satisfactory.

If it's a conference organized by another group then I think you have less sway. I would consider sending an email to the organizers telling them the toilets put you off because of the lack of single sex toilet provision and the behaviour of some male attendees in the mixed facilities. If you were sent by work then an email to HR asking them to put pressure on the organizers might be worthwhile, depending on your workplace.

I'd feel just the same, and would give feedback. I used that type of toilets at a theatre and was so uncomfortable I never went back. There were two men and another woman in there and everyone had the same look on their face. Horrible.

I used to work for a large bank and had to go to a meeting at a bank in Paris. I was working on an international project - everyone else was male, from various European countries. The meeting was in the boardroom - incredibly ornate, old style. At the break I asked where the ladies was, only to be told that there wasn't one and that I should use the, to be fair, lovely mixed sex toilets, which all had full cubicles.

But it mortifying to have to wash my hands at the sinks with my male colleagues, who were fixing their hair, straightening their ties etc. It felt way too intimate. They were embarrassed too. I didn't feel comfortable brushing my hair never mind putting on lipstick. It was all so cringe - knowing these guys made it so much worse.

Dignity and privacy matter too.

Wouldn’t it equally be discrimination against men too though? Some guys might not feel comfortable sharing the sink area.

I was out at a local place with a much loved man friend the other day and we went down to go to the loo to discover that their male and female facilities have now gone mixed sex in this way. We were both equally embarrassed and uncomfortable, it's made a simple thing an unpleasant experience we'd both be keen to avoid unless impossible now. But let's be honest, everyone made uncomfortable and put out is the whole bloody point from this wretched lobby.

There have been plenty of comments along the lines of ‘women don’t complain so they’re obviously fine with it’

OP, if it makes you uncomfortable (and I would be) and you feel ok to do so, then raise it - either as a breach of women’s (and men’s) entitlement to single-sex spaces (if you decide that has merit), or just as a preference for next time someone is booking offsite facilities.

If you are aware that other people felt uncomfortable and they would work with you, this would obviously be both easier and more impactful

I would also hate this! There used to be unisex toilets on the conference room floor in my old office and I avoided at all costs. As did my lovely older male manager. He described hearing the click clack of high heels outside and being mortified.

I hope you get a good response if you decide to take it forward

Yes I would be making a request about it but that is different to a complaint. I think in this case op is better off asking her work to book conferences in places with separate toilets rather than complaining to the venue itself. If they won’t then she will have to weigh up whether that means she can stay in her job.

@NumberTheory
Conference over but a good idea to canvas views from all colleagues. I’ll do that.

@BeEagerEagle
Perhaps complaint is a little too strong, maybe feedback to conference facilities and organiser of the conference.

Yes good idea. A lot of people are all set to jump into massive complaints without thinking rationally first. It’s always good to at least start with a polite request.

I would provide this feedback to your HR if they booked it or to the other organisers (thanking them for the invitation etc.) as to the "suitability of the venue for a business event".

It’s unlawful. Mixed sex toilets have to be fully contained and contain a sink.

Yes. It’s unlawful.

@Ddakji
Reading the Sex matters link provided by
@IwantToRetire
inclines me to think that legislation described in Buildings Regulations 2010 is the direction for this?
Is there anything more pressing / over riding that I should quote?

Do you have a link to the law or case states that?

My understanding was that workplaces have to provide a minimum number of single sex toilets (or fully contained single occupancy ones if space precludes).

And since last year, building regulations make single sex (or universal toilets where space precludes) a requirement in new public buildings too. But that wasn't a requirement until last year and so it isn't unlawful for older buildings that aren't workplaces to have mixed sex toilets nor to have them in addition to single sex. Though there may be well be a discrimination case to be made, depending on the circumstances.

Lots of guys might be uncomfortable, surveys tell us they prefer single sex toilets too. But women are more vulnerable than men in mixed sex environments, are subject to the male gaze in a way that men are not subject to a "female gaze", and are more likely to find religious requirements make such toilets difficult for them. Because the dynamics are unequal, even if uncomfortable far fewer men than women would avoid using the toilet or the venue because of it.