An update to the WI Announcement thread. My DH just got a reply to his application to join them.

[Another2Cats]

This is not a thread about a thread, but recently there was a thread about the Womens Institute announcement that they would not be implementing the SC ruling anytime soon.

I was reading the thread at the time and, entirely jokingly, I suggested to my DH that he should apply to join the WI and see what they say.

So he did just that (he totally gets the GC point of view) and I posted about this at the time:

Another2Cats · 08/05/2025 19:45

I just got my DH to send an email to them:

Hello,

My name is Xxxx (very obviously masculine name). I just read your transgender policy and understand that you accept men.

I am a man and would like to join the local WI group in [xxxx city] (the nearest branch for me is in yyyy [suburb of xxxx city]).

Should I just turn up next Wednesday evening and sign up?

I'm really waiting with bated breath to see what sort of response there is.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5330297-womens-institute-announcement?reply=144143149
.

Well, it turns out that they sent a response this lunchtime.

This is their reply (although with contact details redacted):

Good morning,

Thank you for your enquiry. Our policy states that “WI membership is open to all women who live as women, including transgender women.” If you fit within this statement, you will be more than welcome to attend. I am afraid the WI is not open to men.

Kind regards,

[Redacted]

[Name Redacted]
Federation Secretary
[Two cities - well, a city and a town - redacted] Federation of WIs CIO
[Address redacted]
[Telephone number redacted]
Office hours: Tues, Weds, Thurs 9am – 1pm

Please note the new email address – [Redacted]
.

I don't know, is this something that DH should take up with the EHRC now that he has it in writing?

Wow. You and your DH are amazing, following with interest.

Wow! Hang on a mo.... WI have got a team of expensive solicitors on this. Are you and DH going it alone?

Amazing! We really need this to get picked up by the media, it's an ideal headline maker

@Another2Cats what an update! This is really serious, you and your DH are amazing. I’m ready to garden

Should you need to pay for your own big guns, Mr & Mrs Cat, I'm sure help would be forthcoming.

Wow. Yes, let us know if gardening is needed (or should it be flower arranging, in this case?). Although you'd hope a lawyer looking at this would just tell the WI to sort themselves out and get with the supreme court ruling.

I would imagine WI national has a standard legal firm that they will use for everything, and you'd expect that to be a big one. They won't be bringing the big guns in specially for you.

Yes

"They won't be bringing the big guns in specially for you."

That was exactly my thoughts.

They're a national charity and this is most likely the firm that they go to for any of their legal stuff.

"Although you'd hope a lawyer looking at this would just tell the WI to sort themselves out and get with the supreme court ruling."

You would hope so indeed.

There is a fund that may be able to help, OP.

https://jkrwf.org/

#LEGENDS

Thanks for the link but that is just for women and it is DH who is bringing the claim.

In this case, the whole point is to prove that DH would not be eligible for support from that fund!

There is another thread here about a witch that got banned from witching because of her GC views (it was reported in The Times last night). She is exactly the sort of person for the fund.

I'm sure gardeners would plant some veg for a worthy case brought by a man.

Editing to say well done! It'll be interesting to see what happens next 👀

Unfortunately even big tier 1 firms can have an interesting take on the law on this whole subject.

One such firm told my children's school that a whole subsection of a statutory guidance document wasn't statutory - they actually told the school that the paragraphs in question were "draft". Even after I sent the school confirmation from the DfE that the whole document was statutory, and that none of it was draft, the school went back to the law firm... who again said that this subsection wasn't statutory (they repeated their assertion that it was draft, so didn't count as statutory)🤦‍♀️

Statutory guidance is secondary legislation but it's still part of the law, with "musts" that have to be followed by law (because they tie directly back to primary legislation) and "shoulds" that need to be followed unless there is good reason not to do so (because it's been validated as the best way to practically apply the law). It beggars belief that a law firm would say that any legislation doesn't need to be followed - and of course that an organisation would even ask a law firm if they need to bother following the law - but we do live in odd times whenever the subject of gender identity is involved.

The EA is primary legislation, so is very clear on its absolutes in law, but it wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find a big law firm advising its clients that it's all very complicated and they need to wait for final EHRC statutory guidance etc (or any other variation on the "kick it down the road" theme), therefore delaying any actual change in its clients' policies. Don't-do-anything-yet seems to be all the rage when it comes to organisations making changes so that they comply with the law. Even in the Houses of Parliament where laws are actually created.... FFS 🤦‍♀️

(I'm now in some very bizarre conversations about it all - but obviously that's somewhat of a derail here! I'll post about it separately at some point but probably not in full until after my daughter has finished her GCSEs as I don't want my increased risk of being doxed to add stress to her at what is already a difficult time)

Good luck, Mrs and Mr Cats!

According to the annual accounts, the legal advisers are Bates Wells

2023_24-Trustee-Report-and-Financial-Statement.pdf

Yes, Bates Wells are a leading charity firm.

I've just looked on their website to see what guidance they've issued since the Supreme Court judgment. Looks like they're waiting on the further ECHR guidance:

"Unfortunately, the EHRC Update does not sufficiently clarify the position for employers and service providers. It is hoped matters will become clearer when the EHRC publishes further statutory guidance in June 2025, following a period of consultation with relevant stakeholders from mid-May 2025."

bateswells.co.uk/updates/uk-supreme-court-unanimously-rules-legal-definition-of-woman-in-the-equality-act-2010-is-based-on-biological-sex-for-women-scotland-ltd-v-the-scottish-ministers-2025-uksc-16/

Well they're very stupid.

I know Bates Wells well, and guessed it would be them. I use them in a professional capacity and a personal volunteering capacity, so I’ve kept an eye on their output around this. My feeling is that they’re pretty captured (pronouns in email and a few other clues from reading their regular mailing list briefings)

The guidance will never be 'clear' enough, it's not an incapacity to understand, it's a refusal to respect a law that is not agreed with. In this case, women having rights.

It is unfortunately going to take people taking this to court before all this endless excuses and waiting is forced to get in the bin. The plus side is that it should involve large payouts.

Well done OP and DH.

I'd suggest you still apply to JKR's fund. Yes you may get back a polite refusal - but it may still get drawn to JKR's attention and as a private individual she could also choose to fund cases by males if she wished.v

I do garden for males and would consider a bit of flower arranging.

Great work @Another2Cats ! Thanks for the updates 💪💪💪💪

Also as someone pointed out on another thread, if JKR’s fund is funding some cases brought by women it will free up the rest of us to help men who need gardening.
I’m thinking of the Brighton school Dad who is prepared to go the whole way if necessary, as well as this potential WI case

yup Im ready to garden... do call on us... we are ready to dig deep if needed - whether for legal guidance, or full representation. Sex Matters are likely to be great at giving you some initial advice, and you've probably noticed they are setting up a register of interested lawyers.

You are doing so brilliantly Mr and Mrs Cat - deeply grateful to you for doing this so clearly and by the book.

It's going to be an interesting one to watch - and I suspect would be of great interest to the Times/Telegraph once you get a stage further!!

Ditto on all counts.

Good luck Mrs & Mr Cat.

You and DH are absolute stars @Another2Cats ! Best of luck - truth and the law are on your side and I am happy to join any gardening parties if required.