The very heart of the gender wars: is there an innate difference between transwomen and biological men

[NextRinny]

I know it will be hard to look past the victim blaming and the "weaponising her trauma" nonsense but I urge you to.

It's one of the reddit responses to Karen opening up as to why she is one of the Darlington nurses..
https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1kjvhio/absolutely_disgusting_transphobic_mail_piece_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
There's a real underlying belief here that a trans person is a separate category of human.

It really is like water turned into wine.

Why can't they see that Rose is male???

The difference between

• a man who falsely but sincerely claims to be a woman
• a man who falsely and conscious of his deception claims to be a woman

and

• a man who does neither of those things

is negligible factually (he’s still a man) but morally, the last is at least honest

I'm willing to believe that masculinity is on a spectrum*. To borrow a metaphor, GI(giggle) Joe at one end and Barbie at the other. Place men wherever they want on that scale, they're still all men. There's no point where they will ever become female.

*obviously a gross oversimplification. People are more four dimensional than a simple line.

‘There is a difference between men who ignore women’s boundaries and other men’

I'm a very simple person (there I've admitted it!), so a body born with a v (& v) is female, a body born with a p (& b) is male.

OK, argue!!

Its the utter lack of empathy for the woman that gets me. Rather than even attempting to see how this situation would be traumatic for that nurse they ignore all that and dismiss it as "vile transphobic bigotry".

Ideologically they blindly hold to the idea that "Rose" is a woman just because he says he is and because they can't accept that trans identifying people are anything other than martyrs then any possibility that he might be a predator or a bully are dismissed.

It doesn't even matter if he isn't a predator, Women like Karen shouldn't have to put up with males in single sex spaces.

I wouldn't care if there were an innate difference between transwomen and other men. They're still not women.

Ah sadly I am banned from this sub so I can’t wade in

I'm perfectly happy with the principle that Rose has specific needs that are shared with a definable subset of males. I'm happy that those needs can be discussed and, where practical and proportionate, those needs can and should be met, if that does not negatively impact the needs of other groups.

But Rose is still in a subset of the category that is male.

You're not the only one!

I'd imagine that the only thing they have in common is that they are men. The one group might dress like a woman and wear make up but they're still all men

I’d suggest those posters on Reddit are simply not very bright or are being disingenuous. It’s actually quite sad that they either can’t or won’t understand that because a man says ‘I’m a woman’ that doesn’t mean that everyone around him has to go along with it.

Well my brother had DNA tests and a brain scan and they found fuck all different.

If it's neurodiversity of some kind then that still makes them men anyway.

So I don't really see what the argument is tbh.

The demand that someone should be perceived based on what’s inside their head and not what is actually perceptible is boggling.

I honestly don't think they do believe that Rose is a woman. I think they are just furious that a man is being told that he can't do what he wants.

If they are a different kind of men it still does not justify sacrificing women's rights to them.

Not women's problem.

hour-acadia8497 seems to have it right though

This. It’s just narcissistic rage, as I said on another thread.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/communication-success/201807/8-signs-of-narcissistic-rage#:~:text=Narcissistic%20rage%20can%20be%20defined%20as%20intense,and%20triggers%20inner%20inadequacy%2C%20shame%2C%20and%20vulnerability.

I'm willing to believe that masculinity is on a spectrum

So am I. I'm actually quite sympathetic to the "lady brain" thing. I could be sympathetic to the concept. If it was a useful model for reality.

But not only is monitoring for lady brain impractical versus the long-established alternative of checking for the "lady body", it's blindingly obvious that the vast majority of current transwomen have extreme "man brain". Every direct observation and every aggregate statistic shows how they're further away from women on the "masculinity spectrum" than the average man.

So "lady brain" as a hypothesis for transgenderism makes far less sense than "cluster B personality disorder brain".

Meanwhile, over in trans land, it's all just a text-based role play. They're not actually attempting to model the real world, they're just manipulating text. "A trans woman is like a woman because she's a woman, and obviously a trans woman must be able to use women's spaces. And anyone who's objecting must be transphobic, because the only difference between a trans woman and a woman is the 'trans'."

They're just all doing the role play of supporting the civil rights of this imaginary "trans woman", in a way that would make sense if "trans women" were actually a real type of woman. Which in the real world, or indeed any sort of logical framework, they're obviously not.

I've read and re-read it.
Impossible.

I think they want us to hate men.
I think they really believe deep down that feminism is misandry so if a man does something bad, women believe all men do bad things so all men are "bad".

I think it's not about trans. I think they are trying to prove that women are misandrists by nature.

I.e. father is "cis-man". Father rapes child. Child should grow up refusing care from all men. In trans eyes, child has to grow up showing aversion to all men.
Child grows up to have a male surgeon she trusts.
If she accepts her surgeon, she must accept all male even those she doesn't know or trust who aren't her father.
But if she refuses any male she doesn't know or trust, then she has to hate all other men, if not she's a bigot.

Women are not allowed any personality or judgement in their eyes. Hence they can identify into womanhood. We all have the same blanket wants and needs.

It's manga come to life with the most simplistic thinking ever.

If "there's a real underlying belief here that a trans person is a separate category of human" then the TRAs would have been fighting for a third space / sport category. They didn't fight for a third space because they want to colonise the category of women as their own. All sane people, including transwomen, know that humans can't change sex. There are decent transwomen who dress as women but know they are male and stay out of female spaces.

I don’t think they see women as people in their own right and worthy of respect, they only see women in relation to themselves. So women who are not believing whatever they think should be believed and not behaving in whatever way they think should be happening can only mean that the women are the human equivalent of a factory reject.