Trans people ‘excluded in heart of democracy’ after Holyrood toilet rule change

[IwantToRetire]

The Scottish Trans and Equality Network has hit out at Parliament bosses’ decision following the Supreme Court gender ruling.

A decision by Holyrood bosses to ban trans people from using the toilets of their preferred gender at the Parliament will leave them excluded at the “heart of Scotland’s democracy”, equalities campaigners have warned.

Holyrood Presiding Officer Alison Johnstone said: “As Scotland’s legislature, it is vital that the Parliament fulfils its legal responsibilities.

“Our officials therefore took immediate steps following the publication of the judgment to review it in detail and to consider its implications for services and facilities at Holyrood.”

Extracts only from https://www.expressandstar.com/uk-news/2025/05/09/trans-people-excluded-in-heart-of-democracy-after-holyrood-toilet-rule-change/

The article title was so heart rendering I had to use it!

But actually more astonished to hear that Holyrood is committed to fulfilling its legal obligations. Strange then that they didn't when the Single Sex Exemptions were an active part of the law, that they didn't feel the need to enforce them!

@MarieDeGournay Bearing in mind that transpeople are a tiny proportion of the population, and that there's no objective reason for them not to use the existing toilets designated for their sex, the disruption and cost of constructing gender neutral toilets is hard to justify.

Indeed. And how lucky for the Scottish government that they have no issues that need any funding to help them, no NHS, schools, prisons, libraries or people living in poverty that might benefit from a few quid. Just lots of spare money to piss away on surplus loos (pun not intended).

I'm nowhere hear Edinburgh and will never be able to check this out for myself - but I'm puzzled: when they say the single sex toilets were 'removed' from Queen's Hall, do they mean the interiors of the men's and women's were physically stripped out, and the emptied space replaced with 'universal' unisex toilets?

I'm assuming that's the case, because you can't just stick a new unisex badge on existing single-sex toilets, 'universal' unisex toilets have to comply with different specifications under building regs.

That seems like an awful lot of trouble and expense for no net gain - OK so they've gained some unisex toilets, but they've lost the single-sex ones? Why bother going to all that expense to restrict existing choice?

If there's enough space for single-sex spaces - which there must have been as they were there originally - building regulations say they they should be provided.
Unisex toilets may be an additional-to, but not an instead-of, single sex toilets.

Have I got this right: the venue used to be building regs compliant with single sex toilets, but then for some reason they removed them, and replaced them with unisex toilets which are only building regs compliant if they follow certain specifications.. so is the venue still building regs compliant?

Goodness, 'fully enclosed' toilet facilities don't meet everyone's needs safely, as @keeptoiletssafe has explained, at length, on various different threads.

And those who are unwilling to use those unsafe, pish covered facilities will just self exclude.

But you like their toilets. Cool. All sorted then!

Worst drug death numbers in Europe, rapidly declining education system, lack of access to the Islands etc etc.

It just goes on and on...

Are these them?

Now there's a surprise, pish-covered seats, pish on the floor in the mixed-sex loos. No, they are not "inclusive, non-gendered toilets," they are mixed-sex - let's be honest and call they what they are.

DS (aged 10) said he'd rather use the women's toilet because they dont have piss all over the seat last week as he complained about the state of the boys toilet at school.

He won't be. He hasn't since he was about 7. But even he knows that men and boys = piss covered toilet seats.

I was amused.

A bit of a sideways step but the wonderful charity Make Space for Girls that has studied how playgrounds are entirely designed for and dominated by boys, and worked with planners to try and make more balanced, girl-friendly and accessible play spaces, has also mentioned discovering how many boys are excluded from boys' play spaces.

School staff and parents also often comment on this. There are a number of boys for example who will play football every breaktime dominating the space, and the boys can then end up socially split into the footballing ones and the not footballing ones whose different play needs aren't met, and who are socially lower status if not part of the football dominant gang. To the point that some schools have begun to ban football on the playground being an every breaktime thing.

There are certainly conversations to have about the behaviour of some men and boys in men and boys' spaces, and about making these spaces less grim for the others.

Toilets designed like this across Scotland, with the worst drug figures in Europe.

What could possibly go wrong?

Yep come across that. It’s a handy private place to take and distribute drugs.

Theres also a problem in schools with children having seizures and stopping breathing after vaping because the vapes are spiked. Uni of Bath did a study. Guess where children go to vape or if they feel ill? Luckily, as far as I know, teachers have only had to deal with children collapsing in corridors and playgrounds where cpr has been successful.

People are having medical emergencies and no one knows they have collapsed. The toilets have to have a safety mechanism to open the door outwards from the outside because of the known problem of a body falling against a door. I have articles of children and others who have died in this type of design and cpr has been unsuccessful when they are retrieved. What’s the point in having defibrillators if you don’t realise the person has collapsed?

I have accounts where people (mostly women and children) being led/followed in to them and assaulted. Or people can just let themselves in. If there’s no gap it’s a nice place to hide. I didn’t realise how much sex goes on in toilets (consensual and unconsensual) until I researched. It’s obvious if you think about it - a private, mixed sex space in public. There’s even a name for it on planes.

The picture above looks aesthetically pleasing, but it’s not safe for occupants, particularly when anyone is at their most vulnerable.

This was my experience. DS was a non footballer and sometimes had no other boys to play with at break time as they were all playing football.

Football took on the whole playground and the girls were pushed to the side.

Thankfully the school saw this and restricted football to two days a week.

I’ve gone back to a very old user name for this.

I once attended an event at the Scottish Parliament, pre Covid when gender ideology was in ascendance and people could use the toilets they best identified with.

The event was to celebrate IWD and meant there were almost no men there that day.

I’m female. The queues to the loos were huge so I asked to use the men’s. I said “I identify as a man right now”

I wasn’t allowed to use the men’s even though there were no men around at that time (even the security staff were female!)

so when it suited them the Scottish Parliament was happy to ban people from only wanting to pee!