New Zealand's Forstater case?

[TheKhakiQuail]

Not sure if others have seen this already - NZ is having a court case to test whether GC beliefs are protected as political beliefs!

"In March 2021 LAVA (Lesbian Action for Visibility in Aotearoa) booked a stall at the annual Out in the City (OITC) fair in Wellington, to display a map of Wellington sites of historical, political, and social significance to lesbians.
Initially the booking was accepted, but four days before the event the organisers, Wellington Pride, emailed to say that because of the “nature” of LAVA, the booking did not fit with OITC kaupapa (principles), and there would not be a space for LAVA.
Pride claimed that LAVA was “trans-exclusionary”. The Pride Board Chair stated in an email that OITC participants should be standing side by side with “the most marginalised of the marginalised including our transgender whanau [family] and the marginalisation they face on the daily” (sic)."

"LAVA members, Hilary Oxley and Margaret Curnow, have brought a claim in the New Zealand Human Rights Review Tribunal, claiming that in inviting applications for stalls, Pride was offering a service, and that they unlawfully discriminated against LAVA on the basis of LAVA’s political opinions about trans issues and women’s rights, and because of LAVA’s views that sex and sexual orientation exclude trans women from being women, and lesbians. Pride denies that LAVA’s opinions are “political opinions”, and claims that LAVA’s support for known “anti-trans activists” such as J K Rowling and Julie Bindel is evidence of “transphobia”. Pride suggests that LAVA’s presence with our map would have made the OITC event “unsafe” for trans people, and that the map was based on an idea developed by LGB Alliance Australia, “a known anti-trans group”.
LAVA is represented by senior legal counsel Nicolette Levy KC. Ms. Levy, instructed by Franks Ogilvie lawyers of Wellington, acted for Speak Up for Women (SUFW) in 2021, securing a judgment requiring Palmerston North City Council to allow SUFW to hold a meeting to discuss the proposed self-ID amendments to the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Act.
Political philosopher Ramon Das of Victoria University of Wellington, has provided an expert opinion that LAVA’s views on trans issues are political opinions.
This case is important for everyone with gender critical or sex realist beliefs, because it has not been confirmed by a New Zealand Court that such opinions are a political belief protected under the Human Rights Act 1993. The debate over whether gender critical views such as LAVA's are "worthy of respect in a democratic society" has not been had yet in New Zealand.

Read more about the case and LAVA’s origins

They have a crowdfunder on their website - hard to raise funds in a country of 5 million

Donations bit has not updated recently, be interesting to see the latest figures.

It’s at $89.5k now

Yes that's the total at the end of June, allowing for an extra day to gather in the overseas donations. I'm just putting together a full update and I'll have it up in a couple of days. Thank you all so much

NZ is far better when it comes to queer people than the UK and even has had self-ID for a few years now (and the sky hasn't fallen in, unsurprisingly).

The queer-hate movement hasn't managed much over there, though you will try!

It's always great to hear a country is doing well at supporting queer rights. But NZ is obviously falling behind on women's rights if it's acceptable for people to hold up signs saying to "F. Cs" Very sexually violent imagery towards women there, sadly (and I think it was even targeted at lesbians!). NZ used to be a leader on women's rights. It was starting to make some great innovative steps towards equalising pay gaps on equivalent work not just same work, but sounds like that's being limited now. Also pretty bad on violence against women. Oh well, hopefully the kiwi women will get things back on track.

I noticed how you've suddenly changed to 'queer' instead of 'trans', I'm guessing you must be aware that this is an action being brought by lesbians. The old fashion kind that don't want males in their dating circle, on account of them being lesbians and therefore only sexually attracted to females.

Hi everyone, I haven't posted for a few weeks but here's our latest update after week 1 of our case hearing https://www.lava.nz/news/-case-update-week-one
Thanks again for all your support

Pleased that you got a good amount, disappointed it wasnt the full 30,000. We are all a bit sidetracked by the tribunal at present.

@LAVAMarg How much do you still need to raise? Hoping that bumping this thread may lead to some more donations

Warmest wishes and HUGE CONGRATS on what you are doing - it was great to read the update

Just $8,780 still to be raised. Thanks to women like you we are almost there 😊

Still short and going to court in September. £10 is currently nearly 23 NZ dollars. £25 is around 57 dollars. They need around £3400.

Donated 60 dollars (worked out at around 27 sterling). Fingers crossed for your case.

Back in court for the last scheduled dates 6 - 10 October.

Any mainstream media coverage on this? I haven’t seen any but could have missed it. Seems the crickets are out in full force down under on these things.

I'm a fairly new New Zealander, so I've been a bit floored by the utter lack of understanding of women's rights. This bit from the link is painfully true:

"Cross-examination of our witnesses is founded in the unquestionable right of trans people to be accepted as they say they are, as undifferentiated men, women, and lesbians. Non-binary people must be accepted as having no sex at all. Their right to be seen as the sex they identify is framed as the same as their right to exist. You can’t say transwomen cannot be same sex attracted lesbians because you are asserting trans people have no right to exist."

Very hard to argue anything when you're told to hand over everything as a first step. And you're not considered human enough to have the same rights yourself. Major kudos to the team for keeping the flag flying!

Related: I saw a quote from Abraham Lincoln in a piece by Jamelle Bouie.

'Here I am reminded of Abraham Lincoln’s 1860 address at Cooper Union, where he defends his opposition to the expansion of slavery. Responding to Southern critics who insisted that the Republican Party was a conspiracy to abolish slavery, Lincoln said that the truth of the situation was that there was nothing either Republicans or the entire North could say, short of outright submission to the slave South, that would calm Southern anger or assuage the South’s paranoia:
"What will convince them? This, and this only: Cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly — done in acts as well as in words. Silence will not be tolerated — we must place ourselves avowedly with them." '

Awfully close description of the trans cult too.

Ooof, the latest update is quite something. Imagine saying this at all, never mind in court?! It's staggering stupidity.

I do not think we necessarily need a word for the class of people of the female sex. That is the people who can usually get pregnant, experience menopause etc.
Suzanne Manning, President, National Council of Women

(Source: tribunal update email from LAVA, dated 13th November. I'm sure the content will turn up on their website in due course)

Shocking isn’t it?

The latest update email suggests they have been disadvantaged at every step of the way.

Not sure if they share the updates on their site, but here are screenshots from my email

Also a write up in the NZ Herald here:

Interesting that the article begins with the GC argument rather than setting out the TRA position first.

Very much so. The other side having three lawyers (including a KC) working pro bono, it's so lopsided. And secret too, wtf. That's so sinister.

If you are convinced you are right why not allow open tribunals and financial support to state your case? If you are so right and all...