Secondary School mixed sex changing rooms complaint: Update from school (again)

[TangenitalContrivences]

Hello everyone - Have just received a further update from my daughters (14) secondary school (Brighton) regarding my complaint - which is at stage 2 - go to governors complaint, and my further email to the school asking them to comply with the EHRC interim guidance.

I'll copy both responses below, redacted.

I would very, very much appreciate specific feedback to include in my responses to the school, it's been people here (and elsewhere) who have helped me put together really powerful letters that have clearly rattled the school.

However - there is still a male in the female changing spaces at this school. Therefore it is mixed sex.

(link to the last discussion if you want context https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5309038-secondary-school-complaint-about-mixed-sex-changing-rooms-update-school-response-and-request-for-help-writing-the-escalated-complaint-to-governors )

And obviously the head, governors, safeguarding leads, head of PE and all the PE teachers must now enforce the law. Let the trans student use staff facilities.

"there is already interim guidance. Why are they choosing not to follow the interim guidance?"

Because they are probably drafting a new policy based on the interim guidance and might have to change it again once the full guidance is published?

Because they may also have to ensure they comply with DoE guidance which hasn't been published yet?

And they are not worried by the delay because
they have received legal advice that this is a reasonable course of action to take?

It is unclear who is going to sanction them for waiting?

"Ofsted possibly, if their special safeguarding powers cover schools."

With hundreds / thousands of schools drafting new policies and probably taking a similar approach to this school how realistic is this?

If they or more likely the doe advised schools to implement interim guidance immediately that would have an impact.

I think it's more likely they also say nothing until the full guidance is out

It's a shame no parent has felt able to drag one of these schools through the courts. This continues because we've allowed transactivism to run amok in schools to the detriment of all children and with no challenge.
No legal challenge to teachers socially transitioning other people's children.
No challenge to schools teaching girls they must undress in front of boys if the boy insists (and vice versa).
No challenge to adults gaslighting children that their bodies are wrong but a sex change is the cure.

I hope the OP's excellent letter and persistence might be the catalyst for getting these toxic guidelines out of schools

It's really not difficult to tell male children they can't use girls' toilets and changing rooms.

Takes all of 5 seconds.

Under previous Ofsted guidelines a safeguarding failure - whereby an incident had not been managed as effectively as it could have been and guidance not followed - could trigger an immediate inspection. (Iirc immediate danger to life level risks) Schools found to not be effective safeguarding wise were given inadequate irrespective of other considerations eg teaching quality etc (I believe this was the case for Ruth Parry’s school)

in some situations, from experience, if Ofsted are contacted with complaints they deem to be worthy of following up (key point ) they usually give the head a good drilling to find out how they’re handling it and what they’re going to do next etc.

personally I’d take up SSA’s offer of contact. Hopefully a lawyer could intervene here.

Everyone will be passing the buck till KCSiE is updated and I can’t help thinking that won’t include the SR judgement as (obviously) it’s the law. (so why mention it.)

Labour are relying on cases being demonstrated via the courts (not my circus approach to government) so this one may well have to be even AFTER KCSiE is updated!

Who exactly do we expect to enforce this breach of the law in the meantime?

judicial review?

At the least, a letter from a lawyer?

As scarlet says, it take 5 mins to tell boys they can’t go in girls’ spaces.

"It's really not difficult to tell male children they can't use girls' toilets and changing rooms.
Takes all of 5 seconds"

Perhaps not but they may have to decide whether, and how, to offer third spaces and ensure compliance with new safeguarding guidance which has not even been published....

And in the mean time boys can use the boys' toilets with other boys.

@MrsOvertonsWindow and @WarriorN

Joining together your comments, the OP has a good case for JR here I think and that might well be the way to get this done in a way that will have national impact🤞🤞

@TangenitalContrivences I know it's been mentioned a few times on the thread but SSA would be a great fit here. They have legal contacts who could possibly validate whether it would be a good case and might be able to take it forward if it is.

"At the least, a letter from a lawyer?"

I rather think the schools response to a lawyer would be the same as to OP.

I can't see any court saying they are being negligent in awaiting full and final guidance ...

Changing room third spaces in schools are usually completely unrealistic. They pose supervision / safety issues, security of belongings, children undressing in random places in the school, may impact on punctuality to lessons if staff aren't close by etc.
Sex based changing is the only practical option forchildren in schools

"And in the mean time boys can use the boys' toilets with other boys"

But that is not happening here, apparently and the school have stated their reasons. This will change eventually obviously but I just don't see how OP's letter will speed things up because the interim guidance won't be enforced in the meantime.

I've always wondered what would happen if a girl made an allegation of voyeurism or indecent exposure against a teenage boy claiming to be a girl getting changed alongside her for a school swimming lesson?
Amazing that some schools are delegitimising these criminal offences.

I’m clearly naive…but back in the 1980’s, if teenaged girls were compelled to undress in front of boys at teachers behest, it would be a police matter. It would be sexual assault orchestrated by the teachers.

What has changed?

The school can state whatever reasons they like, they are knowingly breaking the law.

I can't see any court saying they are being negligent in awaiting full and final guidance ...

I disagree. It goes back to WarriorN's seatbelts in minibuses analogy earlier. "I was waiting for the minibus manufacturer to tell me what size the seatbelts needed to be" wouldn't be an adequate defence.

The more pertinent question here is how quickly could a legal case be brought to court? The forthcoming KCSIE guidance and updated EHRC guidance aren't going to change the SC judgment. Nor indeed the SC judgement from 2022, which clarified that sex meant biological sex (and there were already regulations about single sex changing rooms and toilets in schools from age 8 in England and all ages in Scotland) - the recent judgement just tidied up the question about GRCs. The EHRC has already confirmed that it's previous guidance is being replaced, the interim statement is correct and the law is clear.

Well, up until a few weeks ago, I expect the girl would have been called a bigot and accused of a hate crime instead of having her allegations investigated.

"The more pertinent question here is how quickly could a legal case be brought to court?"

What would the charge / claim be? Would it be a civil case?

The school in this case said they expected the guidance in June.....

A bloody, illogically stupid ideology that is unteathered from reality, supports paraphilias and is damaging to women and girls (and is also damaging to a lot of the people that it purports to support) has been promoted by Stonewall (and others) as the next civil rights fight for all the progressive left/RSOH crowd.

If it's a complaint from a child it could be a charge under the Sexual Offences Act against the adults running the schools for commissioning a child to commit a crime (indecent exposure / voyeurism). Although a judicial review seems more likely for failing to safeguard children?
I recall that many years ago as soon as the Crown Prosecution Service were faced with a judicial review challenging their grim school trans guidelines promoting girls being compelled to share changing rooms / toilets with males etc, the guidelines were promptly withdrawn rather than face judicial scrutiny.

"If it's a complaint from a child it could be a charge under the Sexual Offences Act against the adults running the schools for commissioning a child to commit a crime (indecent exposure / voyeurism)."

Seems unlikely the CPS would bring this charge so it would have to be a private prosecution...

That letter was incredible. I had to comment just to bookmark it!

Excellent letter - but long dashes make it look like ChatGPT.

Why are you arguing for girls to be forced to change in front of boys? Seriously?