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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Blistering article from Lionel Shriver

22 replies

PrettyDamnCosmic · 02/05/2025 13:58

This is a very pugnacious article by Lionel Shriver in 'The Spectator'.

I first stuck my neck out on ‘trans’ nearly a decade ago, when a societal obsession with pretending to change sex was already going great guns. I’d been disturbed by this unhinged cultural preoccupation ever since documentaries about little boys in dresses started to glut our television schedules in 2012. I’m not proud of having kept my own counsel in print for three years thereafter, but this radical fad emerged inexplicably in tandem with the stern message that a single discouraging word would end your career. I delayed writing about the topic because I was cowardly and, regarding my self-interest, smart.

Any culture that squanders its efforts on drug regimes and plastic surgery meant to deceive both patients and the world at large that they are the sex they are not is profoundly decadent, if not debauched. We’ve a shortage of neither men nor women, and pretending to swap them back and forth is a waste of money, medical expertise and social aggravation. Private insurance and NHS coverage of this elective ‘treatment’ is a scandal. If people want to play fleshly dress-up, they should do so on their own dime.

This entire fiasco is based on lies, and a society that embraces bald falsehoods is eating itself hollow. You cannot change sex. ‘Trans women’ aren’t women. There’s no such thing as ‘gender identity’, ‘brain sex’, or being ‘born in the wrong body’. Sex is not ‘assigned’ at birth; it’s observed. Sex is not a feeling but an external, immutable, biological truth. All these mystical notions are medieval, and in institutionalising them across the modern West we’ve made ourselves ridiculous.

Until recently, dysphoria was a rare mental illness, which we’ve now elevated to a prestigious designer label. It’s still a mental illness, but the only one we ‘treat’ by nourishing the delusion – worse, a delusion we compel others, in the UK

https://archive.ph/R0gFU

OP posts:
Ramblingnamechanger · 02/05/2025 14:00

Better late than never…

MovingBird123 · 02/05/2025 14:37

Brava!

miffmufferedmoof · 02/05/2025 14:42

Ramblingnamechanger · 02/05/2025 14:00

Better late than never…

What do you mean? That starting to write about the trans issue 10 years ago was late?

TheKeatingFive · 02/05/2025 14:43

She pulls no punches 😵

Marmaladelade · 02/05/2025 14:46

PrettyDamnCosmic · 02/05/2025 13:58

This is a very pugnacious article by Lionel Shriver in 'The Spectator'.

I first stuck my neck out on ‘trans’ nearly a decade ago, when a societal obsession with pretending to change sex was already going great guns. I’d been disturbed by this unhinged cultural preoccupation ever since documentaries about little boys in dresses started to glut our television schedules in 2012. I’m not proud of having kept my own counsel in print for three years thereafter, but this radical fad emerged inexplicably in tandem with the stern message that a single discouraging word would end your career. I delayed writing about the topic because I was cowardly and, regarding my self-interest, smart.

Any culture that squanders its efforts on drug regimes and plastic surgery meant to deceive both patients and the world at large that they are the sex they are not is profoundly decadent, if not debauched. We’ve a shortage of neither men nor women, and pretending to swap them back and forth is a waste of money, medical expertise and social aggravation. Private insurance and NHS coverage of this elective ‘treatment’ is a scandal. If people want to play fleshly dress-up, they should do so on their own dime.

This entire fiasco is based on lies, and a society that embraces bald falsehoods is eating itself hollow. You cannot change sex. ‘Trans women’ aren’t women. There’s no such thing as ‘gender identity’, ‘brain sex’, or being ‘born in the wrong body’. Sex is not ‘assigned’ at birth; it’s observed. Sex is not a feeling but an external, immutable, biological truth. All these mystical notions are medieval, and in institutionalising them across the modern West we’ve made ourselves ridiculous.

Until recently, dysphoria was a rare mental illness, which we’ve now elevated to a prestigious designer label. It’s still a mental illness, but the only one we ‘treat’ by nourishing the delusion – worse, a delusion we compel others, in the UK

https://archive.ph/R0gFU

Being homosexual was also a mental illness according to the same diagnostic manual until 1992 or 1995

what a dreadful bigoted article

shame on whoever put it up

Lottapianos · 02/05/2025 14:52

I always enjoy Lionel's writing. She was great on the Heretics podcast recently too

TheKeatingFive · 02/05/2025 14:53

Marmaladelade · 02/05/2025 14:46

Being homosexual was also a mental illness according to the same diagnostic manual until 1992 or 1995

what a dreadful bigoted article

shame on whoever put it up

You seem very uneducated on thus topic.

Gender dysphoria is still recognised as a mental disorder in some cases.

But it is no longer a necessary criteria for being 'trans'.

nutmeg7 · 02/05/2025 14:54

Marmaladelade · 02/05/2025 14:46

Being homosexual was also a mental illness according to the same diagnostic manual until 1992 or 1995

what a dreadful bigoted article

shame on whoever put it up

You might not like how she writes, but believing that your sex is something different to the sex of your body is quite difficult to label in any other way than some sort of disordered thinking.

It isn't materially true.

Being homosexual should not have been treated as a mental disorder, but it isn't comparable; being homosexual doesn't demand believing in things that are not materially and visibly true (such as the you are really the opposite sex in some mystical way) and it doesn't demand that everyone around you behaves as if they believe it too.

RedToothBrush · 02/05/2025 14:55

Marmaladelade · 02/05/2025 14:46

Being homosexual was also a mental illness according to the same diagnostic manual until 1992 or 1995

what a dreadful bigoted article

shame on whoever put it up

So you can change sex then? How?

The reality is you can't change sex so pretending you can, and then trying to argue a parallel with being gay on the basis of outdated attitudes to mental health is an argument which is completely and utterly fatally flawed. No matter how nice you are or what you political leaning is.

Please try harder next time.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 02/05/2025 14:55

TheKeatingFive · 02/05/2025 14:53

You seem very uneducated on thus topic.

Gender dysphoria is still recognised as a mental disorder in some cases.

But it is no longer a necessary criteria for being 'trans'.

By definition all "trans" people have a mental disorder whether it's body dysmorphia, AGP, internalised homophobia or whatever. Putting on woman face is just as unacceptable as blacking up.

OP posts:
potpourree · 02/05/2025 14:57

Sometimes people get confused between homosexuality, which is a sexual orientation based on sex, and feeling that there is some real way to be the opposite sex, which is a false belief.

I think it's quite homophobic to equate homosexuality with actual dysphoria or false beliefs. I would hope we are past that sort of homophobia in 2025.

Telling gay kids they are "really" the opposite sex is homophobic as well.

I know most people won't need that pointing out.

transdimensional · 02/05/2025 15:03

It seems to make sense that if clinical anxiety and clinical depression are mental illnesses then extreme discomfort with your body or with your sex may also be a mental illness or disorder of some kind. Of course, not all trans people have dysphoria.

Unfortunately, in our society, terms such as mental illness can be seen as stigmatising, but 25% of people experience a mental illness in any one year, and 50% of people experience a mental illness at least once during their lifetime.

RedToothBrush · 02/05/2025 15:05

potpourree · 02/05/2025 14:57

Sometimes people get confused between homosexuality, which is a sexual orientation based on sex, and feeling that there is some real way to be the opposite sex, which is a false belief.

I think it's quite homophobic to equate homosexuality with actual dysphoria or false beliefs. I would hope we are past that sort of homophobia in 2025.

Telling gay kids they are "really" the opposite sex is homophobic as well.

I know most people won't need that pointing out.

I'd argue it needs spelling out in capital letters EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT PEOPLE MAKE THE FALSE EQUIVALENCE.

Homophobia is utterly rampant in this ideology.

Whistleblowers at the Tavi, said they came across it on a daily basis. Gay staff were told they were over sensitive and seeing things that weren't there (despite the actual data SCREAMING they were spot on).

RedToothBrush · 02/05/2025 15:07

transdimensional · 02/05/2025 15:03

It seems to make sense that if clinical anxiety and clinical depression are mental illnesses then extreme discomfort with your body or with your sex may also be a mental illness or disorder of some kind. Of course, not all trans people have dysphoria.

Unfortunately, in our society, terms such as mental illness can be seen as stigmatising, but 25% of people experience a mental illness in any one year, and 50% of people experience a mental illness at least once during their lifetime.

You mean like Anoerxia.

Which you wouldn't affirm in a million years. For good reason.

Hey wait, what do you mean theres a considerable overlap between cohorts who are anoerxic and identify as trans?

(Nothing to see here)

JasmineAllen · 02/05/2025 15:21

Marmaladelade · 02/05/2025 14:46

Being homosexual was also a mental illness according to the same diagnostic manual until 1992 or 1995

what a dreadful bigoted article

shame on whoever put it up

The only overlap with being gay and being trans is that gay people of both sexes have been transed away which IMO is the real shame.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 02/05/2025 15:23

Marmaladelade · 02/05/2025 14:46

Being homosexual was also a mental illness according to the same diagnostic manual until 1992 or 1995

what a dreadful bigoted article

shame on whoever put it up

You are using false equivalence, look it up.

Igmum · 02/05/2025 15:25

YES! ✊ Well said and no punches pulled

netflixfan · 02/05/2025 16:09

Well said Lionel.

PruthePrune · 02/05/2025 16:13

@Marmaladelade

Blah,blah, blah, bigoted, something, blah, blah

Peregrina · 02/05/2025 16:22

I can't remember any time when homosexuality was promoted as the norm in the way we were told that TW were W and we had to put them on a pedestal and pretend that we agreed, even though we were heterosexual.

I can remember the time when homosexuality was a criminal offence and men were imprisoned just for being homosexual. To my knowledge no TW has been imprisoned because they were a TW. They have been imprisoned because they have committed a crime - like rape or being a convicted paedophile.

InConniptions · 02/05/2025 19:39

On this archive the content is not truncated (the last link was for me)

archive.is/Pu6BZ

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