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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

FA statement on BBC Radio Ulster today

12 replies

OwlDoll · 01/05/2025 20:34

I'm just wondering did anyone else hear the programme Talkback today when they were discussing the FA statement on transwoman in football?
Fiona (sorry, I didn't catch her surname) fron Sex Matters was fantastic with her contribution. The interviewer was also very good I thought and gave her time to talk and explain.
He was a stand in presenter and I feel she wouldn't have had the same chance to put her point across if the regular presenter had been interviewing her, as he has always been very sympathetic to the TWAW view in previous shows
For balance they had Peter Thatchell on and some of the arguments he came out with were laughable. You can actually hear a snort of derision in the background at one point.
Its definitely worth a listen.They started the show with this issue but we don't hear Fiona until about 10 minutes in.
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002bfsz

OP posts:
Conxis · 01/05/2025 21:11

I’ve just listened. Very good interview from Fiona and an unbiased presenter.
A welcome break from all the “which toilets will poor Chloe use now?”
I can’t believe the change in language already!

SternJoyousBee · 01/05/2025 21:41

Fiona v Peter Tatchell. Talk about unfair advantage 😂😂

Peter was totally out played

Lovelyview · 01/05/2025 21:58

Thanks for sharing. Great interview.

Bluebootsgreenboots · 01/05/2025 22:22

Wow. Tatchell on males retaining physical advantage after surgery, saying ‘you don’t know that, you don’t know that’ to Fiona. Yes we DO. It’s been studied.
And as for his suggestion of measuring men, to put the small ones in with the women, and the big ones in with the men. Seriously?
Absolutely brilliant to witness all the info and facts that those of us who lurk in this corner of Mumsnet know so well, finally getting an airing in front of the rest of the population.

Catiette · 01/05/2025 23:19

Thank you. It was such a RELIEF to hear this discussed on the BBC in this way. It felt extraordinary to hear people using the terms "male" and "female" and accurate pronouns without hesitation or censorship.

I'll never forgive the BBC for obscuring the complexities of this debate. They have frightened me more than any other contributor to it - they've shown me how vulnerable freedom of speech and democracy are. The BBC, of all things, have shown that! They should be utterly ashamed.

And as for Tatchell's, "Well, one TW I know says they're an awful lot weaker"?! I honestly thought he'd do better than that, at least. It just sounded... well, I'm fighting not to use Kathleen Stock's word of the moment, because, seriously, who wouldn't listen to that and think, "You don't say. But what's that got to do with anything?!" Does he not understand that somewhat-weaker-than-before-male does not equate to female? Does he not hear how childishly simplistic that sounds? And how utterly offensive? And to present it so very weakly, with that peevish little, "Well, why does that one person say that"? Tone, content, the emotive focus on one person sez? It felt like playground bickering at teacher for calmly saying break's over now.

And so good to hear trans men's ongoing participation in female sport highlighted. That gives the lie to male demands for inclusion, and highlights the inbuilt misogyny in the ideology, in one fell swoop. No one was thinking of them 'til now, were they? And, meanwhile, they weren't demanding extraordinary concessions for themselves, either, but just quietly getting on with things. It really sums it all up.

SternJoyousBee · 01/05/2025 23:29

Catiette · 01/05/2025 23:19

Thank you. It was such a RELIEF to hear this discussed on the BBC in this way. It felt extraordinary to hear people using the terms "male" and "female" and accurate pronouns without hesitation or censorship.

I'll never forgive the BBC for obscuring the complexities of this debate. They have frightened me more than any other contributor to it - they've shown me how vulnerable freedom of speech and democracy are. The BBC, of all things, have shown that! They should be utterly ashamed.

And as for Tatchell's, "Well, one TW I know says they're an awful lot weaker"?! I honestly thought he'd do better than that, at least. It just sounded... well, I'm fighting not to use Kathleen Stock's word of the moment, because, seriously, who wouldn't listen to that and think, "You don't say. But what's that got to do with anything?!" Does he not understand that somewhat-weaker-than-before-male does not equate to female? Does he not hear how childishly simplistic that sounds? And how utterly offensive? And to present it so very weakly, with that peevish little, "Well, why does that one person say that"? Tone, content, the emotive focus on one person sez? It felt like playground bickering at teacher for calmly saying break's over now.

And so good to hear trans men's ongoing participation in female sport highlighted. That gives the lie to male demands for inclusion, and highlights the inbuilt misogyny in the ideology, in one fell swoop. No one was thinking of them 'til now, were they? And, meanwhile, they weren't demanding extraordinary concessions for themselves, either, but just quietly getting on with things. It really sums it all up.

Edited

Think Tatchell was referring to Sadie Schreiner the runner who looks like a glam rocker on speed. Sadie claims to be slower that before start wrong sex hormones. I think Sadie just doesn’t run at full capacity because Sadie wins races without having to

thirdfiddle · 02/05/2025 00:04

Hey, my husband is a lot less fit than he was last year, can he go in the women's race too?

Bluebootsgreenboots · 02/05/2025 05:47

@thirdfiddle that depends. Is he a small man? If so he can join the wims regardless of his fitness. Cos according to Tatchell, small man = female.
if he’s big, well, he’s a proper man, so might need to wait until he feels really weak.

porridgecake · 02/05/2025 06:02

Honestly, whenever PT gets wheeled out I just roll my eyes. He has absolutely nothing to recommend him. He just goes through life missing the point and being encouraged to think his opinion is important.

CatietteX · 02/05/2025 06:06

You all just made be smile at the start of a busy day - yes, yes and yes.

borntobequiet · 02/05/2025 09:02

Fiona is so good.

ItisntOver · 02/05/2025 09:16

porridgecake · 02/05/2025 06:02

Honestly, whenever PT gets wheeled out I just roll my eyes. He has absolutely nothing to recommend him. He just goes through life missing the point and being encouraged to think his opinion is important.

I’d probably be emboldened to think well of myself if I were defaulted to as the spokesperson for pretty much everything in the LGBTQ+ space, had the ear of government, NGOs, international organisations and the fiefdom of an entire foundation to call my own.

As has been so often, despite the lip service to safeguarding, there comes a time when nobody does due diligence and the people who are elevated to sacred caste status are effectively untouchable and deferred to because of their iconic status.

(NB: PT was invited to that panel with Helen Joyce and Fred in the Elder Statesman capacity but it was notable that Fred paid PT no heed even when PT was dispensing reasonable advice about Freda’s liberal consumption of alcohol and behaviour. So, it may just be MSM that is still bamboozled by PT.)

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