Pulled up at work for ‘trans views’

[wherearethemarsbars]

Recently, a colleague at my company has declared that they are ‘agender’ and asexual and has asked to be addressed as ‘they’. As a result, my company decided to arrange a trans training session where some trans people came in to talk to us all about gender and terminology etc etc.

During this session, I was asked to describe my experience of living as a ‘cis woman’. I said that I didn’t have any experience of living as a cis woman, only as a woman so I couldn’t comment. I was pressed further and didn’t say much, only that the term ‘cis woman’ doesn’t align with my personal beliefs of what a woman is, so therefore declined to comment any further.

A few days later, I was pulled up on this by management who said that my behaviour was not acceptable and that I should be making an effort to be inclusive to everyone. I’m a bit baffled. Can I get others’ thoughts on this topic?

Exactly! His preferences have to be respected and acknowledged but OP’s doesn’t?

How is it possible to answer a question about experience of living? Living as a woman, I mean what does that even mean? Do you want to know my life story? Are you interested in all the problems I've had, all the sexism I've encountered, do you want to know about my pregnancies, do you want to know about my miscarriages, my painful periods, my struggle with fitting in, do you want to know about my autism, do you want to know about my relationships? Do you want to know my family history (there's a lot of oppression in it, women being punished for simply being female)?

I don't want to tell you about any of those things, particularly in a public arena in a training session where nobody cares anyway. It's none of your business. How I live is private. And as for living as a cis woman, why don't you ask me if you are really interested, about my experience as a woman at work? I could talk about that. But you wouldn't like it.

Tell them your religion doesn't agree with trans ideology and if they want to persecute you on the basis of religious belief, have at it.

Watch them squirm.
Fucking dicks.

The clue to my response is in the term cisGENDER. I reject gender, do not impose one upon me. I am an adult human female which means I am a woman, this is a fact, not an identity.

The OP rejects the term cis, who are you to decide she can't or dictate to the rest of us what we are allowed to be concerned by?

Why are you making, frankly batshit, claims about people being "physically attacked"?
Do you understand that words have meanings.

everyone deserves to be treated with courtesy and to not be physically attacked by anyone else. People should not be treated differently because of what is in their underwear

@IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal - first of all, yes, people deserve to be treated with courtesy.

But the physical attacks? They are coming from one sex only - the male sex, which includes transwomen. Women are far, far less likely to react with violence, as the ONS can confirm. Transwomen offend at male rates, not female ones.

”What is in their underwear” is a very weird way of saying “their sex”. People absolutely do get treated differently by sex because because a) we live in a patriarchal society that discriminates against women and b) if men and women are not separated in some instances, women suffer violence, discrimination, physical injury, cannot win in sports, cannot receive same sex care to guarantee their dignity and privacy… the list goes on.

As a society and in law we have asserted a need for single sex services and space. If you think that’s wrong, by all means start a campaign.

There is nothing mean or unkind about safeguarding, women’s rights and our boundaries.

Play theses idiots at their own game and tell them that you identify as a Dormouse and for six months of the year you won't be coming into work as you will be hibernating.

Failure to pay you or sacking you will result in your taking them to court for their failure to be inclusive.

I'd email for clarification. Deliberately. Stating what you said at training and what management said. 🪏🕳️

Why's this thread been moved onto Feminism? It's a work place bullying issue and countless exasperated women have been commenting.

In which case it’s constructive dismissal.

Very good response.
I completely agree with you , i would be livid if i was referred to as 'cis' ,i absolutely loathe the word.
Have you asked them why the same level of respect and acceptance is not offered equally to you and your choice of how you wish to be addressed.

It also means that countless working women repeatedly subject to these coercive control techniques who're getting home from work don't get to read this and take note of the massive support the OP has from ordinary women.

I am guessing they saw your attititude as confrontational, which is sounds like it was.

After Forstater and the SC judgement, asking to be referred to as a woman is not confrontational. It's legal. The employer's stance is illegal

It's not confrontational to refuse to be labelled by people compelling people to use special incoherent labels for themselves.
She's a woman - full stop.

You did nothing wrong.

Imagine turning the table and asking the presenter her experience of living as a Teapot Green Potato Woman.

It's tantamount to the same thing.

They are conflating two different things. It is possible to be inclusive of other peoples opinions without holding that same opinion.

Why ? I hate the term cis and refuse to recognise it for what it represents. So what you’re saying is that those who self identify as something other than their birth sex have to be accommodated, but women don’t ? Women are women. Cis is meaningless.

The term for a woman who isn’t Trans is Woman.

That’s all, and is correct and valid.

I would be interested to know how they would have responded if you said, quite neutrally, “I don’t identify as Cis.”

It is like requiring someone who says they do not hold a Christian belief to call themselves a sinner.

It is required engagement in the belief system.

No thank you.

This

How are you supposed to describe your experience of living as a ‘cis woman’? What did the other women in the room say??

I'd be stumped.

This argument falls flat tho because cis isn't the opposite of trans. "Not trans" is. Cis is like the terms "infidel" and "heretic". They describe not-being-the-thing from the point of view of being within the belief system.

I'm free to call myself atheist and not trans, just as another person is free to call themselves Christian and cis or Jewish and trans.

I'd be within my rights to complain if a work training session asked me to describe my life as a heretic.

Yes - the SC ruling is the actual law so it’s not even as if this is a feminist campaigning issue any more - it’s literally just advising OP on how to enforce her indisputable legal rights she already has under the law.

Obviously, many, many women are going to be subjected to workplace harassment that breaches the EA 2010 over the coming weeks as these women with the protected characteristic of being biological women are unlawfully asked to justify why that protected characteristic should be protected in law, as people continue to debate the legitimacy of the SC ruling at work (and as employers issue public statements condemning the SC ruling, thereby implying that women shouldn’t have the sex-based rights they currently have under the EA) so it’s really important that other women outside of FWR understand that employers shouldn’t be subjecting them to this kind of harassment under the EA.

Woman means a woman who isn't trans. Women who are trans are called transmen. I don't see the need for the term 'cis' and if it offends people why use it?

I’m saying this kindly, if people feel ‘damage’ if everyone else doesn’t play along with their internally experienced, self claimed identity, they need to get help.

HR should emphatically NOT be punishing employees for recognising reality. The Free Speech Union may be of assistance.