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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Killing his daughter for TikTok shame

130 replies

MsAmerica · 30/04/2025 22:54

Her Father Took Her on a Trip to Pakistan. The Police Say It Was a Trap.
Hira Anwar was pulled out of middle school for what she thought was a vacation. Her death is being investigated as a so-called honor killing.
By Sarah Maslin Nir and Zia ur-Rehman

In late January, while on a vacation with her father to his hometown, Quetta, Pakistan, Hira was shot to death in front of her father’s family home. Shortly after, her father, Anwar ul-Haq Rajpoot, tearfully told the police that a random attack had taken his daughter’s life. But the Pakistani police now say that the shooting, and in fact the entire trip, was a trap that he orchestrated.

In a chilling confession, Mr. Rajpoot told investigators he ordered Hira’s execution because her behavior was an embarrassment. Mr. Rajpoot had his daughter killed, he told the police, because “Hira’s clothing choices, lifestyle and social relationships” had brought her family shame.

In Yonkers, her school, her friends and her family are reeling, unable to process the death of an eighth grader whose sass impressed her teachers and whose staunch character made her a go-to referee among her girlfriends.

“It is hard for us to even understand mentally that this actually happened,” the eldest of her two sisters, Heba Anwar, 22, said before declining to comment further. “We were living a very happy nice life.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/nyregion/hira-anwar-honor-killing-pakistan.html

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 08:33

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 08:24

Similar killings have occurred in the UK and other western european countries and while they are relatively rare, they point to a pattern of coercion and violence that affects many more women who live with in it and yet (by the grace of allah) escape being murdered. Is that not a relevant topic for a feminism board to even discuss?

I find it striking that when the poor teen in this case stopped wearing the hijab to school, her school head took her aside to enquire if she was being bullied to do so but seemed to have accepted the wearing of the hijab as a case of not being bullied though we do know from red hot issues in say Iran that ditching the hijab is what actually gets girls and women killed.

I hope you are not suggesting that I am one of the people trying to shut down discussion about this, I welcome it.
Hijab is not Islamic, again its cultural, you really don't seem to understand the difference.
Islam is used by abusive men to abuse women, its a tool rather than a reason

EasternStandard · 02/05/2025 08:45

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 08:30

Culture not faith
There is no provision in Islam for this behaviour.
Men will use their supposed faith as justification for these awful acts but it is about them as people not whatever religion they claim to follow.
I suppose its like any religion, people (mostly men) use their own interpretation of it to justify their actions.

Religion is informing that. They are intertwined. A religion doesn’t just live in word form it’s the actions of men.

And it’s women who suffer from that.

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:10

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 08:33

I hope you are not suggesting that I am one of the people trying to shut down discussion about this, I welcome it.
Hijab is not Islamic, again its cultural, you really don't seem to understand the difference.
Islam is used by abusive men to abuse women, its a tool rather than a reason

What is zina in Islam? What are the islamic concepts of female modesty or aurat? There are clear and codified expressions of control of female bodies in the Islamic religion which is law in many countries. These religious ideas are widely expressed and imposed, why do you keep using culture as a deflection? Forgive me my suspicions, I think it is to move the discussion from the concrete to the nebulous and to ward off criticism.

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:12

EasternStandard · 02/05/2025 08:45

Religion is informing that. They are intertwined. A religion doesn’t just live in word form it’s the actions of men.

And it’s women who suffer from that.

I agree, its always women who suffer, whatever the mens motivations/excuses are

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:13

EasternStandard · 02/05/2025 08:45

Religion is informing that. They are intertwined. A religion doesn’t just live in word form it’s the actions of men.

And it’s women who suffer from that.

Religions also have the habit of writing down their rules, of having centuries of scholars expressing their views, of having gasp, Religious Police even of enforcing obedience to rules which then informs observable patterns of practice. Imagine that.

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:18

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:10

What is zina in Islam? What are the islamic concepts of female modesty or aurat? There are clear and codified expressions of control of female bodies in the Islamic religion which is law in many countries. These religious ideas are widely expressed and imposed, why do you keep using culture as a deflection? Forgive me my suspicions, I think it is to move the discussion from the concrete to the nebulous and to ward off criticism.

I am not a Muslim but I believe that the only mentions of clothing in The Qran is that men and women should "dress modestly" and some people believe that this actually means without ostentation.
I am not deflecting at all I just want to make the point that religion is the tool/excuse these men use to justify their actions. It is NOT the reason behind what they do (even if they try to tell themselves that)
As I said I am not a Muslim, I am actually an Atheist and not a fan of any religion really. I just find it frustrating when Islam is used to explain behaviour
I feel it lets violent men off the hook and takes the focus away from the victim.
I also find it frustrating that any dissent that Islam is the root of all evil is seen as an attempt to shut down discussion.

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:20

Hijab is not Islamic, again its cultural, you really don't seem to understand the difference.
I beg to differ. I am Asian and live in SE asia. Culture here did not mandate the wearing of the hijab and arab dress until the 1980's. Religious revival has almost completely obliterated cultural dress, artforms etc. I could give you chapter and verse because this has happened in my lifetime. You might not be be able to patronise me so easily.

Islam is used by abusive men to abuse women, its a tool rather than a reason
This is a welcome admission. Let's build on that.

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:21

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:13

Religions also have the habit of writing down their rules, of having centuries of scholars expressing their views, of having gasp, Religious Police even of enforcing obedience to rules which then informs observable patterns of practice. Imagine that.

Men, its all men
They use something essentially benign to control/punish women.

JaninaDuszejko · 02/05/2025 09:22

How do you the Op is American?

She posts on the What we're reading? board, regularly starting threads with a link to a US media site about a topic with a US slant but then not including any personal viewpoint, just like her OP here. It's a bit bot like (you'll notice she's not posted since the OP). So yeah, I guess a red light goes off a bit for me when I see her as an OP, although on the WWR board her threads don't get much if any engagement because there's not much to say when an OP is just a link to a newspaper article about a US author. And that, in conjunction with the anti-islamic stance coming out of America on social media, makes me wonder about the motivation for posting and who's going to select quotes from this thread to push a their racist agenda in the US. I would not have the same reaction if a different poster had linked to the bbc report and had included a personal slant in their OP.

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:24

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:21

Men, its all men
They use something essentially benign to control/punish women.

But men use tools right? Some tools are sharper and more dangerous. Should we not seek to disarm these tools rather that wail "it is men!, It is always men!" ? We have historically been able to disarm other religious tools men have used.

EasternStandard · 02/05/2025 09:25

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:13

Religions also have the habit of writing down their rules, of having centuries of scholars expressing their views, of having gasp, Religious Police even of enforcing obedience to rules which then informs observable patterns of practice. Imagine that.

Yes it’s oppressive and unbelievably resilient through the generations because children are taught it.

Religion is not entirely benign, and in some cases I’d say more dangerous for women.

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:26

JaninaDuszejko · 02/05/2025 09:22

How do you the Op is American?

She posts on the What we're reading? board, regularly starting threads with a link to a US media site about a topic with a US slant but then not including any personal viewpoint, just like her OP here. It's a bit bot like (you'll notice she's not posted since the OP). So yeah, I guess a red light goes off a bit for me when I see her as an OP, although on the WWR board her threads don't get much if any engagement because there's not much to say when an OP is just a link to a newspaper article about a US author. And that, in conjunction with the anti-islamic stance coming out of America on social media, makes me wonder about the motivation for posting and who's going to select quotes from this thread to push a their racist agenda in the US. I would not have the same reaction if a different poster had linked to the bbc report and had included a personal slant in their OP.

Ok. Fair enough. She may be a troll. You should have clarified that. Is the topic unfit for discussion because it was started by a troll?

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:27

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:20

Hijab is not Islamic, again its cultural, you really don't seem to understand the difference.
I beg to differ. I am Asian and live in SE asia. Culture here did not mandate the wearing of the hijab and arab dress until the 1980's. Religious revival has almost completely obliterated cultural dress, artforms etc. I could give you chapter and verse because this has happened in my lifetime. You might not be be able to patronise me so easily.

Islam is used by abusive men to abuse women, its a tool rather than a reason
This is a welcome admission. Let's build on that.

"Religious revivial" - still a tool men use for control. I see photos of women in Afghanistan in the 70's vs now and I could weep for them. Islam is not responsible for that men are.
"lets build on that" - and you think I am patronising.
I don't support Islam or any religion, I just feel that writing off mens behaviour as "Islamist" lets them off the hook and panders to certain sections of society with vile opinions.

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:28

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:24

But men use tools right? Some tools are sharper and more dangerous. Should we not seek to disarm these tools rather that wail "it is men!, It is always men!" ? We have historically been able to disarm other religious tools men have used.

I think a lot of women in The US would argue that Christianity is not "disarmed" right now.

EasternStandard · 02/05/2025 09:30

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:27

"Religious revivial" - still a tool men use for control. I see photos of women in Afghanistan in the 70's vs now and I could weep for them. Islam is not responsible for that men are.
"lets build on that" - and you think I am patronising.
I don't support Islam or any religion, I just feel that writing off mens behaviour as "Islamist" lets them off the hook and panders to certain sections of society with vile opinions.

Honestly this ‘men are’ to everything religion has caused is not great.

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:36

EasternStandard · 02/05/2025 09:25

Yes it’s oppressive and unbelievably resilient through the generations because children are taught it.

Religion is not entirely benign, and in some cases I’d say more dangerous for women.

There are entire governmental, police and other powerful structures used to enforce, protect and propagate the last powerful global theocracy on this planet but we should not be looking too closely at that because ...reasons.

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:39

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:28

I think a lot of women in The US would argue that Christianity is not "disarmed" right now.

You left out buddhism in Tibet and shamanism in Brazil. Glad to help out with the whattaboutery.

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:40

I just feel that writing off mens behaviour as "Islamist" lets them off the hook and panders to certain sections of society with vile opinions.

Ah so you are on your white woman anti-racism duty then?

EasternStandard · 02/05/2025 09:41

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:36

There are entire governmental, police and other powerful structures used to enforce, protect and propagate the last powerful global theocracy on this planet but we should not be looking too closely at that because ...reasons.

Exactly. Well said

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:43

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:39

You left out buddhism in Tibet and shamanism in Brazil. Glad to help out with the whattaboutery.

Thank you
You really don't like Islam do you?

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:46

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:40

I just feel that writing off mens behaviour as "Islamist" lets them off the hook and panders to certain sections of society with vile opinions.

Ah so you are on your white woman anti-racism duty then?

Well firstly you have no idea what colour I am and you seem to think that me being "anti racism" is some sort of insult, how bizarre.
Also, you seem to be very confused about culture/religion/race. Those are 3 different things

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:49

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:43

Thank you
You really don't like Islam do you?

I see you have no answer.

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:55

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 09:46

Well firstly you have no idea what colour I am and you seem to think that me being "anti racism" is some sort of insult, how bizarre.
Also, you seem to be very confused about culture/religion/race. Those are 3 different things

I am chuckling because whatever colour you are, I am quite confident that I am darker. I find you self-appointed gate keeping duties interesting and usually it is well meaning but utterly clueless white women who do that. I apologise for the colour jibe. It is irrelevant. But if you start from a position that it is islamophobic or racist to discuss relevant feminist issues, you are aiding male violence.

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 10:13

miraxxx · 02/05/2025 09:55

I am chuckling because whatever colour you are, I am quite confident that I am darker. I find you self-appointed gate keeping duties interesting and usually it is well meaning but utterly clueless white women who do that. I apologise for the colour jibe. It is irrelevant. But if you start from a position that it is islamophobic or racist to discuss relevant feminist issues, you are aiding male violence.

Where am I gate keeping, self appointed or otherwise? Gate keeping would suggest I want to shut down discussion and I certainly do not want that.
Also, where have I said that discussing feminist issues is Islamaphobic or racist?
I am simply trying to say that writing such incidents as this poor girls murder off as as religiously motivated lets violent men off the hook.
This murderer may try and convince himself that his religion required this but for me that holds no more water than an "The aliens told me to do it"
I am also pretty sure that suggesting you were a "clueless brown woman" could be seen as offensive.

EasternStandard · 02/05/2025 10:21

Hoppinggreen · 02/05/2025 10:13

Where am I gate keeping, self appointed or otherwise? Gate keeping would suggest I want to shut down discussion and I certainly do not want that.
Also, where have I said that discussing feminist issues is Islamaphobic or racist?
I am simply trying to say that writing such incidents as this poor girls murder off as as religiously motivated lets violent men off the hook.
This murderer may try and convince himself that his religion required this but for me that holds no more water than an "The aliens told me to do it"
I am also pretty sure that suggesting you were a "clueless brown woman" could be seen as offensive.

It doesn’t let men off the hook, but it doesn’t let the religion off the hook either.