Allow Male Workers to perform mammograms and breast screening

[CrakdEgg]

OK, so the Society & College of Radiographers have their annual delegates conference, where members bring forward motions for the union to lobby on.
In the past they have passed motions to 'remove gendered language' from health communications for inclusivity - you know, 'pregnant people' and the like. They then lobby behind the scenes to the Government to follow these requests.

This year we have this motion -

Allow Male Workers to Perform Mammograms

Workforce shortages: there are 15 posts for mammographers on NHS jobs. In the UK.

But are we bothered? Do we not want males in this space, or does it not matter because we have male gynaecologists? Or will it dissuade women from attending?

I am interested to hear other people's opinions. My instincts say 'no way Jose', but I am interested in keeping males out of female spaces, so I accept my bias.

Thoughts?

Our clinic has a sign up saying ‘women only past this point’. The one male mammographer doesn’t need to being seeing any women for their presence in the clinic to put women off attending.

I see. So, job opportunities to go up the ladder that have traditionally been open to females only, as a natural progression.....should now be also open to men. How exciting for them!

Mens rights, much? And who would miss out, in the paternalistic world of medicine / NHS? Who would have to move over?

I see.

I also think that if they want to increase attendance ‘turn up here at 3.25 on Friday, call/text if you need to rearrange’ is more effective than just ‘book your scan’.

There is never a good time to book a scan, but if you create the social obligation of an appointment but make it easy to rearrange you force engagement.

However that is more difficult if there is uncertainty about the sex of the mammographer.

I think there's been conflagration of scenarios - the two week wait breast clinic mammograms where you spend a delightful afternoon, in a gown, in a busy hospital setting getting poked and prodded by a host of different people and machines and generally with an audience of different HCP of either sex .... and the routine screening mammograms where there's topless you in a small room in a van in the arse end of the Tesco carpark with no one about but the radiographer manhandling your breasts.

For the first I would barely notice the sex of the HCP, for the second it could only be a woman.

is the carpark not busy?

Yes

I agree. I've had several referrals to the 2 week wait clinic and have been examined by both male and female healthcare staff. I found the examination by the male Dr quite unsettling, but it was tolerable - I had a female nurse chaperone, and the physical examination was very minimal and quick with him standing to my side with no other physical contact. The fine needle aspirations have also been done by both sexes - again, female chaperones and a very medicalised procedure which required a lot of looking at screens as the needle was guided in and minimal touching. No other physical contact.

Mammograms at the breast unit and the community screening centre in the supermarket car park - completely different scenario. At the supermarket unit there was a receptionist booking women in as they arrived and one radiographer doing the mammogram, with 100% more touching and manipulating of my boobs and arms and the radiographer pressed up against my side as she pulled me into position.

If there was absolutely a choice between a male and a female radiographer for mammograms with no woman receiving an inequity of service in any way, shape or form then I might be prepared to accept it. However, we all know that's not how the NHS operates - there aren't infinite resources, and women are just expected to put up and shut up.

A mammogram feels far more intimate than a smear to me, certainly FAR more painful, I find them almost unbearable.
No way is a Man squeezing and manipulating my breasts.

I wonder who is pushing this? It's not as though there's more male radiographers available.

The vast majority of radiographers are female, so "allowing" males to work in mammography would not be a good way of solving the problem of more appointments. All it would do is make women more wary. And maybe make some men happy?

It’s a no from me. The media coverage I’ve read seems to omit the fact that many appointments aren’t in traditional health care settings where other medical staff and patients are around. Most people I know have been to tiny mobile units on trailers parked in out of town car parks. It’s extremely cramped. Just you and the hcp alone right up against each other. Nope.

I think this is a reach too far tbh .

Ahh yes I’ve heard this too. Male hcp’s would complete to see how many TUBES they could get away with. (Totally Unnecessary Breast Exam).
They would even write it on patients notes for their own amusement.

same happened to me. When I next attended the surgery, I was given an appointment with him. I asked to switch and the receptionist nodded and immediately switched me to another doctor. I feel bad that I didn't report it because I was worried this would happen to someone else, but I didn't think I'd be believed.

I've posted this to another thread, but it belongs here as well;

According to Breast Cancer UK;

Despite a lower number of breast cancer compared to the white population, it is also true that black Caribbean, black African, Indian and Pakistani UK women are at greater risk of being diagnosed with breast cancers that are more difficult to treat (including later stage, more aggressive, more difficult to treat sub-types).
Additionally, South Asian women, which includes those from Indian, Bangladeshi and Pakistani backgrounds, are at higher odds of being diagnosed with late-stage breast cancers.

Breast Cancer Now says;

women living in areas of higher deprivation and those from certain ethnic backgrounds are much less likely to attend regular breast screening. These same groups often face higher rates of late-stage diagnosis and therefore, poorer outcomes.
Many women have questions or concerns about screening – what they should wear, how long it will take, whether it’s painful, will they been seen by male staff – and about breast cancer generally. When these questions go unanswered, fear and anxiety can deter them from getting screened.

<end of quotes>

Then you've got women with Jewish heritage with a much increased rate of BRCA mutations. Again, not a group prone to being blasé about having their bodies out for examination or being touched by males on the whole.

And people want to increase the rates of non attendance in groups that have lower uptake and worse outcomes by saying 'yeah, there could be a bloke doing it, the female staff might call in sick, you could opt to wait another year or so, we could tell the receptionist if we have one on the day to stand behind the console assuming they aren't pregnant - or you can just fuck off and we'll see you with a male surgeon when it's too late to treat effectively?'.

This is their contact form if you want to give your views. Leave the reg number field blank.

https://www.sor.org/about/society-of-radiographers/contact-us

I also think that if they want to increase attendance ‘turn up here at 3.25 on Friday, call/text if you need to rearrange’ is more effective than just ‘book your scan’.

Maybe. They do that with us, and I contacted them to say I was away, only to be told I can't rebook, as they only do bookings 3 weeks in advance. So it is one of my tasks for next week when I'm in the office again, and can see my work calendar.

I did take my car to be cleaned today and did consider popping in to see if they had any spaces today, as it's next to the car wash. But I went home and then to the beach instead.

That's got no bearing, as you're potentially alone in a trailer with noone else in that particular building. It's not like being in a hospital with lots of staff around.

Did anyone hear Jane Garvey on Times Radio this afternoon talking about this. She made my blood boil, epitomised an entitled woman who seems to have absolutely no empathy for women who might have a problem with this. What's the problem seemed to be the depth of her thinking. So infuriating to listen to her. We need more Shelagh Fogarty's on the radio and less Jane Garvey.

Isn't it amazing when women say no, how hard people will work on breaking that boundary?

Reasons everywhere.

Yet none of the reasons from women matter.

It's a no from me. I wouldn't attend, it's that simple.

It’s he thing having a lump and being seen as emergency …but this is routine tests for women over 60…I’ve had 2 now and no lumps…came back clear.

have you ever had a mammogram?

a smear test is done in around 1 min by experienced nurse or Gp…you lie down with sheet, drop knees, they put speculum in …a minimal of touching your body

a mammogram involves the radiologist has to lift and position your breasts, often moving them to get good position…one at a time, in 2 different positions. You’re pushed up against a barrier in an uncomfortable position, standing, then Your breast are then clamped down between the plates…and I mean clamped, squeezed flat and it’ bloody hurts…I’ve big breast so maybe that’s why…but it hurts, unlike a smear done properly. You’re standing there in a very vulnerable position of being completely exposed for about 5-8 minutes … and vulnerable because you are in hands of an radiologist who could cause more pain then necessary by allowing plates to squish to hard or shoving you into the supports ( that gentle hand on back in pictures is a firm push of your body into those supports and her lifting breasts in hand you can’t see.

I was genuinely shocked first time I went at how much your breast are handled and how painful it is. But the thing that makes it just a bit less yuk is the lovely staff in their trailer. A safe space. Women who understand the vulnerability you’re in.

i read somewhere that an alternative tech solution was being touted where women lie on tummy and breasts drop into the plates. To make it less painful. But like a lot of women’s procedures that never gained traction. Let’s not bother making it a less painful procedures, they’re only older women …or women…as usual fuck all spent on medical research for women.

would blokes accept their balls being squished hard between 2 solid plates, on a regular basis to detect any sign of testicular cancer…I doubt uptake would be high

if you want older women to do this regularly, have decency to not humiliate them by even having blokes in trailers, let alone manhandling their breast

yep, if I get a lump that needs further checking, sure I’ll be happy to have any doctor …in fact I did have cancer in milk ducts years ago…and make doctors investigated it and performed surgery.

But, that ain’t the same as routine testing.

If I felt a female staff member was causing pain unnecessarily I’d certainly be much more willing to call it out and get assertive with them, than in a situation of being alone in a small trailer with a male staff member …I’m 60 plus now and am well used to men ignoring me, male medical staff not listening..and being intimidated to call it out. And I’m not a flaky person..

There’s definitely nothing you can do when your breast is in a vice !

A vice???????????!!!!!!!!!

More like a clamp. Squashed as close to as flat as a pancake as possible. Fun and games!

I don't know...might manage to move an arm at least...