Interim guidance from EHRC is out, thread 2

[Darkgreendarkbark]

Unless someone has beat me to it? Seemed like an animated discussion still going, if anyone wants to continue. I wanted to reply to Cautious Lurker who said it was for society to uphold the law and stop people going into the wrong facilities. My post (before the thread filled up) was going to be:

Well, may I nitpick - it's down to service providers and employers. They are the ones subject to this law. It's not "for us as a society" to ensure that individuals follow the rules that service providers and employers bring in so that those organisations may comply with the law. I'm all in favour of the law, but it's not on my shoulders to uphold and enforce it in every leisure centre and office block. We did all the hard work of campaigning and crowdfunding just to get the law itself clarified. I can now just use my voice to complain to the provider if my single-sex space turns out not to be. Because the law is on our side.

I agree, but I think an even simpler translation of transwomen is “biological men”, as the SC and EHRC say.

This plain language sidesteps any accusations of disparagement arising from the word ‘claim’ and arguments about abusers always finding a way, etc, and it cuts straight to the heart of the issue - that a biological male’s motivation for entering a woman-only space is completely irrelevant to whether he should be allowed to do so.

Hi, delurking to ask- I don't know if anyone has posted this already, but I have found a FOI on NHS Lothian trans inclusivity policy. I can't figure out how to share it though, as it's a pdf. Here's the link if anyone interested. It's quite a startling read on how much thece misinterpreted the EA 2010. From 2024
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=org.nhslothian.scot/foi/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2024/05/8616.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiOj4ibxvqMAxV5QkEAHcKEAQwQFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0fYf5j4Q7OtEloazhofXya

I dunno... Maybe, but for me it's not because I think of them as women. I just struggle for some reason with the combination of PC+something that's not a PC. Like what if there was a club for "Buddhists and people who are interested in Buddhism", or "Chinese people and those who are interested in Chinese culture". Effectively, they are open to all. Nobody's going to turn up and say "Oi, I'm not interested in Chinese culture and I'm not Chinese, but I'm annoyed that you're having a meeting without me, so I'm going to make a scene about it". I suppose in those cases, no exemption is actually being used, as effectively these are just special interest groups. The problem arises when a Chinese person stands up and says "look, this special interest group is all very well and good, but I also want a group that's only for Chinese people where we can talk about our lived experience without spectators". Which they are also entitled to, of course. So... I've now confused myself again. For some reason this feels like nailing jelly to a wall.

Thanks for sharing,@RoseRedorDead!

There’s a working group thread for volunteers auditing the NHS policies for each trust, and while I think they’ve done Lothian, it’s definitely worth having a look.

It really is shocking when you look behind the scenes at what these public orgs are actually doing, especially when it comes to the NHS and prisons, who are charged with safeguarding some of the most vulnerable women in society.

@LonginesPrime thanks for this, I'll check it out. My other half is a consultant for NHS Lothian and is well versed in trying to fight the erasure of women from the inside.

Please thank your other half! Hopefully that task will become much easier now!

The other thread is also collecting copies of letters, notes etc that Trusts are sending out to staff (in case your OH has received anything similar) since the SC judgement. They have set up a repository where you can post it anonymously. It’s interesting how they vary.

Thanks @Bunpea I'll pass details onto him. He's quietly converted his whole dept (well, most of them) and they quite literally assign gender at birth... Obv, they don't, they record it accurately 😂

Thanks. It's given as 1 toilet if 5 staff or less. (Most small places of work like shops, small offices or cafes). And that (employee) facility needs to be single sex if more than two employees? www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm

It’s a bit out of my comfort zone but I am happy to go on the radio to point out single sex toilets with gaps designed in them is the safest.

Please please do! It is such an important point and it is missing from all the debates that I have seen/heard outside Mumsnet.

Apologies for muddying the waters. You are of course correct. Me not.

I assume that places can stick with what they had pre. 2024 as long as they have not rebuilt or extensively remodelled. Once they do they need to take account of these new regulations.

Yes that’s what I believe. The EHRC and HSE may tweak it - I was on to them last year with some suggestions.