Thank you, you wonderful ladies. I spoke out today for the first time.

[TeaAndCakeMakeThingsBetter]

I’ve been lurking for a very long time, reading, absorbing and appreciating all the discussion on this board. I’ve tentatively raised the issues with some friends, although sadly some are fully captured that TWAW (whilst proclaiming their strong feminism 🙄), but never really had the courage to ‘go public’.

The Supreme Court ruling and the backlash has been going round and round my head all week, and this evening I felt emboldened to comment on the BBC facebook for the first time.There were so many comments on ‘what about the 6 foot beardy transmen’, ‘the poor trans women just want to pee in peace’, why aren’t all loos just unisex etc etc and I had comebacks for them all, largely based on information I’ve learned here. I feel like I’ve actually done something positive today rather than just getting frustrated in my head, so thank you, you wonderful wise women. I’ll continue to lurk and learn, and hopefully will be able to contribute more over time.

Finding trans people odd and unsettling is transphobia.

I disagree - we know the basic social rules as far as men and women are concerned. When we see a man who says he's a woman we know he's not and can't really relate to him as woman, but he can't be related to as a man either because he doesn't want to be.

Well, I disagree.

We are wired to find difference unsettling. I live in Scotland where most people are white and I'm not that used to seeing black people. Because of that, they stand out to me. It's just what it is.

What I don't do is discriminate against them. THAT would be racism.

Same with trans people. The vast, vaaast majority of people are not mimicking the other sex. If I were to come across someone that was, it would stand out to me as being different and uncanny.

As above, I wouldn't discriminate. THAT would be transphobic.

How is that hard to understand?

ETA: Would you go to an African country, where white people are rarely seen, and call them all racists for noticing and feeling weird about the one white person in the community?

Finding trans people odd and unsettling is transphobia.

I don't think anyone said that they find trans people odd and unsettling. Males and females of the species have been able to spot each other since time began. It's something instinctual and inbuilt.

Seeing a cleary male person mimicking female behavior and being told "no this isn't a man this is a woman" does something very strange to most peoples brains.

So is "uncanny valley" transphobia?

But @WaverleyOwl did say it:

I think that there should be more discussion around how it's okay to find people that present as the opposite sex odd and uncanny and unsettling.

The question is, does it count as transphobia, or is it only transphobia if there is actual discrimination?
The analogy I used is racism. Would it be racist to find the presence of black people "odd and unsettling", if you were from a community that almost never saw black people? Or is that just human nature and it only becomes racism if you are deliberately unkind or discriminatory?

I am concerned that newcomers to this site may feel vindicated in their view that Mumsnet is transphobic.

I had comebacks for them all, largely based on information I’ve learned here.

Brilliant that you had the presence of mind to remember what to say. Part of feeling fear is forgetting your words, so you are right to feel proud.

I for my part have just cancelled my LibDem membership and contributed to Natalie Bird's crowd funder. She was wearing a t shirt saying Woman, adult human female and was banned from membership. The transwomen and their transrights t shirts were never banned. She won her case without it going to court but her payment was restricted so she is appealing against that.

Ed Davey came out with of course we support the Supreme Court ruling but we need it to be explained how it applies in practice. No chum, it doesn't. I read the whole 87 pages and although not a lawyer it seemed clear to me.

Me too. I found the judgment exceptionally clear even though IANAL. It is a masterpiece of exposition which is only to be expected from the finest legal minds in the country sitting in the Supreme Court. It also shows the value of an independent judiciary untainted by political bias.

I think there's a difference finding people who are mimicking something other than what they biologically are odd and unsettling and saying trans people are odd and unsettling.

In regards to race, I'm also from a small town in Scotland and there's very few black people so yes I would notice a black man in the Post Office in a way I wouldn't notice if I was in the middle of Princes Street. I certainly would not find it odd and unsettling It would just unconsciously register.

I think if we're all honest we can tell a man from a woman 99.9% of the time and I stand by my point that being told that a clearly male person is female can be quite jarring and confusing. I don't think that's unkind or discriminatory.

I regards to whether newcomer's think this site is transphobic or not - it seems that even stating biological reality and making the case for womens rights is transphobic so I personally don't care very much about that.

I am concerned that newcomers to this site may feel vindicated in their view that Mumsnet is transphobic.

In which case, they would be wrong, and need to see more of the world.
Mumsnet is an amazing forum where everything can be discussed, including subtle, nuanced topics. Posters challenging each others' views is what makes for an effective debate. Arguing against your own opinion (to see if you change your mind) is also healthy.