NHS Policy Audit - working party - thread #2

[KnottyAuty]

This is a thread about “keeping the receipts” on NHS Policies prior to the Supreme Court ruling on 16th April 2025.

Our working theory is that there were no single sex spaces for NHS Staff or Patients in the entire country before that date, having all been removed by stealth. We are aiming to prove this by auditing websites and policies for all the UK trusts and using the results to raise public awareness. As well as recording what has happened historically, the information will form a baseline so we can check which Trusts comply or defy the judgement in due course.

We are working around the country region by region. If you fancy getting involved in a bit of grassroots feminism then please do join in to help!? Each trust takes about an hour to research and you can upload online without giving any personal details away. Comment below and we can give you the link to an online survey - it changes for each region.

Thanks soooo much to all the vipers who have helped so far and @ Twoloons for doing a great job with the thread wrangling!

Here are the press articles we’ve managed to generate so far:

Scotland:
25th March: The Telegraph
https://archive.is/dTUhY
26th March: Scottish Daily Express
https://archive.is/kaLCB
26th March: The Telegraph
https://archive.is/iSD9m

London:
21st April: The Telegraph
https://archive.is/awGuz
23rd April: The Telegraph (in conjunction with another thread by NHS mumsnetters)
https://archive.is/1DO8d

Original thread #1 here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5291237-nhs-policy-audit-working-party?page=1

All yours @YellowRoom - many thanks!

Do let us know what the reply is!

@SeaStoat could you please refresh the request from last year to see if they produce it now?

@Blackmetallic id say submit what you have now - and just add a brief note to say you’ve FOI requested/expected date etc Thank you!

Sterling work everyone!

As a progress update - I think we will get another London article out in the press next week on mental health.

@TwoLoonsAndASprout is looking at evidence gathered on dementia so far to follow up on a recent JKR tweet. And try for an article on that.

And I’m waiting to see what we can get going on The midlands audit which I finally finished and sent out on Wednesday… cf an Board member with strident views and another angle on the rise of the Rainbow Badges

🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

@KnottyAuty I have a further update on a previous Trust. Do I just fill out a new form? It was from the East of England batch I think.

Are you looking for any of the Trusts further south?
Norfolk and Suffolk NHS Foundation Trust provides mental health and learning disability services across Norfolk an Suffolk.

This FOI in relation to their attempt to achieve Rainbow badge accreditation elicited 9 policies, including the policy on Searching.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rainbow_badge_accreditation_15/response/2075027/attach/html/10/Searching%20C35.pdf.html

"Wherever possible the search should be carried out by three members of staff (two searching and one in close proximity of the search to maintain safety). At least one of the staff must be of the same gender as the service user, the gender of the other searchers should be based on risk assessment from both the service users and staff perspective. In exceptional circumstances and based on risk assessment (e.g. an emergency, service user is missing) the search may be carried out by two members of staff. "

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/rainbow_badge_accreditation_15#incoming-2075027

Yes please! Just pop another entry in the form - but only the new information and leave everything else blank. We can then combine behind the scenes. Thanks!

Thanks - I will check it out - I think we had problems finding some staff policies for that trust so this FOI may be a big help - cheers!

Norfolk & Suffolk NHS Foundation Trust is or was a Stonewall diversity champion. The chair of their LGBT group is a man who claims he is a woman.

It still refers children to transactivist resources. www.nsft.nhs.uk/gender-identity

This is from NSFT's mental health services self referral form. The pool player Lynn Pinches rang them to make sure when she asked for a female counsellor that she'd get a woman. They said they could not confirm that - she'd get a female (gender). So she couldn't go ahead with her request for support as she needed a woman counsellor. Appalling.

Thank you @FannyCann and @SeaStoat for the Norfolk and Suffolk stuff. I should be over being shocked by this point, but clearly there’s still some shock left in me.

As @KnottyAuty says, we’re doing a bit of a hunt centred on dementia; I wonder if we should widen to mental health in general.

Ugh.

Hi, I've just joined but am happy to help out if there are any gaps or areas you need covering.

I've submitted Leeds Teaching Hospitals - Rainbow Badge Bronze.

They're not that sneaky - this is on the patient-facing site:
''Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust (LTHT) is committed to eliminating mixed sex accommodation and protecting the privacy, dignity and safety of our patients... Delivering same-sex accommodation for transgender people is managed in a respectful patient centred manner, and they are accommodated according to their presentation and wishes. Non-binary individuals will also be asked discreetly about their preferences.''

Thank you!

"Delivering same-sex accommodation .....Non-binary individuals will also be asked discreetly about their preferences.''

My head is exploding (again).

The latest Telegraph article - ‘Guidance shared by [NHS trusts] offers tips on using nail varnish, eyelash extensions, perfume, and the correct underwear to transition to look like women’

"The kit advises readers to “listen to your discomfort” adding: “Are there things about your body that make you uncomfortable? Do you feel like something is wrong when you do something in particular?

“Perhaps you feel jealous that other people get to use clothes, names, or words that you can’t, or unable to shake the feeling that you aren’t the way other people see you?”"

https://archive.ph/V5Foe

So any adult human female who was hoping for genuine single sex accommodation in the Leeds hospitals can just get knotted. Right. Got it.

Well at least I know.

In any UK NHS hospital. Just to be clear…

😳😳😳

“..Non-binary individuals will also be asked discreetly about their preferences.''

Try doing that in an unblemished Yorkshire accent…

What have I just read?! How on earth did we get to a position where a health service is providing something like that to patients? How?

It adds that it is best to begin trying to change gender markers before being entirely certain about the process, stating: “It can be really tempting to wait until you feel more certain about things, but that uncertainty probably won’t go away just from waiting.

The whole thing is so spectacularly irresponsible and lacking in scientific rigour - or indeed any kind of basic evidential foundation. Someone please tell me this isn't real?

All those people declaring their intent to be "on the right side of history" who have been pushing this poison. They're certainly going to make history books, but not in the way they intended.

Sorry, just what you are all uncovering is mind-blowing.

I'm in the midst of Leeds Community Health Trust, there are historical links that indicate this trust has been heavily into the Stonewall schemes but the current website seems to have been scrubbed clean of the evidence. Not the first time i have encountered this apparent subterfuge.

Thank you! I think this adds even more clarity - what the Dept of Health did in terms of guidance on ending mixed sex accommodation was clearly with the understanding of sex in that judgement in mind. They just created an ‘acceptable breach’ which demolished the intention of the law. But the fact that they needed to put that this was an allowable exception into the guidance shows, I think, that they knew that the biological definition of sex was the law.

Have you tried using the wayback machine to find an earlier version of their website?

Absolutely agree, despite what many have being saying for years about the law being unclear, this is simply not true. I also think although IANAL that the precedent set on the legal definition of sex as biological sex by the Corbett case, potentially applies to other areas of British law.

Good idea thanks.

Oh dear look what is happening in Shrewsbury. Unrelated to our audit but
The Royal Shrewsbury Hospital:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/f2cc3595950f8f64

Probably doesn't help if the staff have to contend with males in the female changing rooms. Local policy on trans staff (Dec 2024) still up on their website:
https://www.sath.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/W51-Supporting-Transgender-Colleagues-Guidance-Nov24.pdf

In the glossary this Trust expects staff to understand this about their colleagues:

Genderqueer - Also known as non-binary, is a catch all category for gender identities that are not exclusively masculine or feminine. Genderqueer people may identify as either having an overlap of, or indefinite lines between, gender identity; having two or more genders (being bigender, trigender, or pangender); having no gender (being agender, nongendered, genderless, gender free or neutrois); moving between genders or having a fluctuating gender identity (genderfluid); or being third gender or other-gendered, a category which includes those who do not place a name to their gender.

While I accept that some people may take on board these terms for themselves, there is a point (I'd say the term "non binary") after which noone reasonably needs to know or care. This is a workplace policy rather than a description of someone's care package - we do need to be respectful of others but in general these policies have gone way over the top in the level of detail and some reining in would be appropriate.

And this regarding shared staff facilities - which should in theory be amended following the SC ruling so it is odd that it is still publicy available on the internet without any cautionary note:

Gendered facilities such as changing rooms, showers and toilets can cause concern for a line manager in supporting a member of staff in their transition period. It can also be daunting for the person transitioning as they may be nervous about what colleagues may say about them using facilities they have not used previously. It can also be a concern for colleagues including those who hold specific beliefs such as strong religious beliefs. Usually, people will be able to use the facilities of the gender they identify as at the point where they begin living as that gender, regardless of progress through the transition or surgeries which may or may not have taken place, but further advice can be provided by the HR Advisory Team where conflicting views are present to find a workable solution to support all team members

My bold above - comment made and the concerns of others = ignored.