NHS Policy Audit - working party - thread #2

[KnottyAuty]

This is a thread about “keeping the receipts” on NHS Policies prior to the Supreme Court ruling on 16th April 2025.

Our working theory is that there were no single sex spaces for NHS Staff or Patients in the entire country before that date, having all been removed by stealth. We are aiming to prove this by auditing websites and policies for all the UK trusts and using the results to raise public awareness. As well as recording what has happened historically, the information will form a baseline so we can check which Trusts comply or defy the judgement in due course.

We are working around the country region by region. If you fancy getting involved in a bit of grassroots feminism then please do join in to help!? Each trust takes about an hour to research and you can upload online without giving any personal details away. Comment below and we can give you the link to an online survey - it changes for each region.

Thanks soooo much to all the vipers who have helped so far and @ Twoloons for doing a great job with the thread wrangling!

Here are the press articles we’ve managed to generate so far:

Scotland:
25th March: The Telegraph
https://archive.is/dTUhY
26th March: Scottish Daily Express
https://archive.is/kaLCB
26th March: The Telegraph
https://archive.is/iSD9m

London:
21st April: The Telegraph
https://archive.is/awGuz
23rd April: The Telegraph (in conjunction with another thread by NHS mumsnetters)
https://archive.is/1DO8d

Original thread #1 here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5291237-nhs-policy-audit-working-party?page=1

Morning Vipers catching up on the thread. Can you allocate me 2 trusts from the list please @TwoLoonsAndASprout when you get a moment.

Brilliant! Times can't be far behind. Quite surprised they haven't bitten yet.

One of the things that continues to surprise me on this issue is the hooks that catch Vs the ones that don't.

I'd have thought 'there are no single sex spaces in an entire NHS region because the managers are systematically lying to patients' would have been a slam dunk for any vaguely GC publication. Is it because no-one is really surprised? Or the power of one single example (eg writing in actual anti-woman insults?).

Thank you - all yours. I’ll DM you.

James Paget all yours! Thank you! Will DM.

Agree With @teawamutu it is odd what journalists latch onto or not.

If they are going for the most extreme examples, I’m surprised no-one bit at the “transwomen may need to dilate their neovaginas. Please do not refer to their dilators as sex toys.” Just combine that with the idea that privacy and dignity can be preserved with a curtain where necessary!

@TwoLoonsAndASprout please can I take one from the new list for this week?

No, you’re good - we’re just starting out here, and still crunching Midlands data, so that’s fine! Will DM you.

Morning! How do you feel about:

• East and North Hertfordshire NHS Trust
• Hertfordshire Community NHS Trust

I’ll DM you the new form.

I’ve got Princess Alexandra Hospital NHS Trust for you (might be interesting - has a maternity ward).

I’ll DM new form.

We need to prove that first. It will go ballistic when they can put it on the front page. Faster faster with our research vipers!

Oh that might be because I didn’t flag that well enough. Remind me which trust that cracker was from please?

This isn't on you, Knotty - I haven't seen the dossier (although thinking about it, I'd love to at some point) but there's only so much spoon feeding a journalist on a national newspaper should reasonably need/expect!

Oh that’s a thought. I wonder if we could persuade someone like Sex Matters to host the entire dossier - like the WPATH files. So everyone can see everything…

eta - at some point when we’ve finished, obvs

It might even be possible, assuming the data is in spreadsheet format, to feed it all into PowerBI or some free equivalent (Google has a pretty good one) and then presto! Instant dashboards, diagrams and infographics.

The problem is that theres just too much information. It’s a goldmine/house of horrors. Can’t see the wood for the trees scenario!
So I try to flag the most interesting items - but when huge tracts of the document goes yellow highlight that’s not so helpful 🤣

I reckon theres at least 2 more decent stories in the London audit - and maybe your comment adds another! Let me know the trust and I’ll flag it

Thanks for these I have got the new form!

Ok I’ll have a go and DM you

So I think this angle - the dilation devices are not sex toys one - is actually tricky to present in a way that doesn’t just suggest we are all going “ick!”. In a sense, whether we agree with the premise of the surgery or not, this is a valid thing that people who have this surgery have to do.

Where I think we have leverage is, (a) (as you say) there are serious privacy issues if this is happening on an open (women’s) ward, and (b) this is potentially another indication that trans patients are given more rights and protections than any other protected group in policy. So, for example, is there an equivalent written policy that says that (for example) children with communication aids should not have these treated as “just an iPad” (can’t think of another sensible comparison). It’s not just that the policy says “patients have different needs, try to meet those needs,” but rather that it explicitly sets out a set of needs that must be met for one group, but not others. It is disproportionate.

@KnottyAuty absolutely no criticism intended - it’s just the example that stuck most in my mind. I can’t recall the Trust now, but I think I commented on the first thread about it.

Like @two‘s point B, the sheer level of detail and care taken to consider every possible accommodation is astounding, and insulting to NHS staff who I’m sure are more than capable of caring for trans patients respectfully without having to be specifically told to straighten wigs and offer side rooms and run interference with family members, and so on.

Out on interest, on the dilation front, I know this is required after certain cancer surgeries for women. How is it usually handled on a ward? I can’t imagine any woman being happy about doing it without the privacy of a locked door.

@umbel, that’s interesting about women’s cancer surgeries. And no, I can’t in a million years imagine this would be expected to take place on an open ward.

So, again, as you say, the sheer volume of instruction on how best to care for trans patients, compared to other patients, is noteworthy. One trust I looked at in the Midlands had 11 pages on trans issues, and half a page on disabled people.

Oh hold out - there is a chap here who says that TERF isn't a slur.
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1918741096001372235

Apparently we are snowflakes 😂

I may feel grateful for some media outlets from the right, when the guardian deserted us, but GB News still makes my skin crawl. This guy is exactly the sort of person who must have written this misogynistic drivel we have had to endure reading. I never knew women were so hated. I wish I still didn't

Came over from the thread you posted a link on just to give you a big clap 👏and to thank you!!!

Thank you! We seem to be averaging more than 1 mainstream media article a week - so our report card will defo say "exceeding expectations" this term 😂

Several years ago I applied for one of the DC to attend a short residential course run by the largest STEM course provider. That DC has a learning need so I spent ages providing details of what support they needed and getting the school to do the same. The company were really rubbish at supporting DC and I tried to make a feedback-type complaint. When I looked in detail at their website - full page on supporting trans students, 1 paragraph on supporting students with disability. Just wrong. Each student who stayed was in their own ensuite room anyway.

Sorry I am ever so late to all of this - just going wow at the sheer amount and detail of the research you have amassed.
I am usually quite good at ferreting out info online so happy to have a go at any unallocated area. Please let me know if I can help.