Anyone fancy adding their 2p to Rory & Alastair’s pod?

[SummerDaysOnTheWay]

Rory and Alastair have deigned to discuss the ruling in their podcast… it would be great to see some more GC comments underneath this episode….

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7DXX2a9X5fxQSBc4ebRa2l?si=2hE1nB_lTXKgEysemtMlJQ

I just listened. The thing that most depressed me about it was the complete ignorance combined with the arrogance to speak in an authoritative manner on the subject.

I also get the rage whenever someone comments on how Lord Hodge says the judgment shouldn't be seen as a victory of one side over the other and then chastises the women with champagne and cigars. I understood Hodge to be counselling everyone to read the judgment carefully and understand that trans people and women have their own protections under the EA, and not that women's rights are more important than trans' rights. But the internalised misogyny of the majority heard Hodge saying "behave yourselves girls, don't be mean, I know you won but don't make the losers feel bad, eh?".

These men get a lot of airtime given they’re wrong about major stuff.

Edited to say men as they have that casual male arrogance of their type.

Hi
Patriarchy and paternalism are two different things.
Patriarchy is, broadly speaking, the hierarchical social system which gives men power over women in society. This does not need to be interpreted as literal power, although it has its roots in legal systems which saw women as men’s property, but can include ways of organising which have grown up along male lines - so for example, the idea that we work full-time all our lives to accrue social and financial capital does not account for maternity and childcare which are biologically and traditionally seen as the role of women. Patriarchy is also hierarchical for men, given how power and status in society is constructed economically and politically. This is what people mean when they say patriarchy harms men too.

Paternalism is top down decisions about the welfare of others, broadly speaking, and because of how society is organised, these are usually men making these decisions. It may come with reciprocal obligations, so for example, an industrialist in the past may have provided housing and education for his employees but expected that they attend church and don’t get drunk outside of work. It comes from paternal, so the obligations of a father. Maternalist is about protecting the welfare of mothers and children, I think.

No idea if that is any help, but that is how I have understood the concepts.

Thanks - I definitely mean paternalism!

Strangely I think this might be why AC defers to his daughter and wife on this subject.

It's like traditional men who allow their wives to have authority over 'women's things' like laundry.

I think the wife and daughter are (1) a shield - it’s their thinking (2) convenient - it’s Wimmins’ stuff so who GAF, let the girls talk and think about it (in ways I approve obvs) so I don’t have to bother, because I just don’t care about people who aren’t men.

It’s on their instagram now… some great GC comments 💜💚🤍

I also get the rage whenever someone comments on how Lord Hodge says the judgment shouldn't be seen as a victory of one side over the other and then chastises the women with champagne and cigars. I understood Hodge to be counselling everyone to read the judgment carefully and understand that trans people and women have their own protections under the EA, and not that women's rights are more important than trans' rights. But the internalised misogyny of the majority heard Hodge saying "behave yourselves girls, don't be mean, I know you won but don't make the losers feel bad, eh?"

Wonderfully put! Bloody James O'Brien and soppy Jon Sopel were indignant about the campaigners expressing joy and excitement that they'd won their case.

Suzanne Moore has written a powerful piece about the 2 Prats in the Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/24/alastair-campbell-thinks-women-fighting-trans-activism/

Archive link

https://archive.ph/2MVs4

A most enjoyable read.

Love this podcast normally, but so disappointed in the two of them when debating the recent judgement. They were mansplaining all over it. Privileged middle class (probably upper middle in Rory’s case) men wondering what all the fuss was about. I had to switch off. Alistair was particularly irritating. Can see why he was known as a bully in his day when working in Government circles.

They loathe women and really couldn’t hide it. Hideous.

They’ve lost me as a listener replaced with double jeopardy which was recommended on here far better

He just sounds so ill informed on the entire subject! Smug mansplainer. So unimpressive.

The only women acceptable are the women who say yes. Women saying no is not something these entitled men can compute.

so true.

i think that Alistair is trying to appease Grace and his family friends and really doesn’t care about the women’s rights issue and doesn’t want to understand it. He has been told that this is the “right side of history” thing to do, he is a very tribal person who can’t ever admit of a different argument and so he wouldn’t listen to any argument. It’s not got any critical thinking behind it. I was disgusted at the level of debate and the misogyny but not surprised. It’s really unkind to criticise a bunch of women for celebrating - these are women who risked a lot. And the both sides argument is just completely rubbish - I bet the “abuse” Alistair got on the trans issue was a few strongly worded emails from a few female listeners on the GC side, he never had to worry about his job or his physical safety, unlike the female campaigners.

Rory as usual thought he was brilliantly clever with his argument that if only everyone was as brilliant as him they would have found a compromise. What he failed to understand was that, in admitting that there are situations (he gave sport) in which he would treat bio women and TW differently, HE IS GC because biology matters to him from a policy point of view at least sometimes. Rory is a TERF. The argument is really, from that point about just how GC you are as to where you might draw the line. Rory doesn’t realise that just a couple of years ago it was very difficult to have that conversation at all and that it is only the work of a few very brave U.K. women that has allowed him to go even as far as his mealy mouthed comments. Rory obviously works in a sector in the US in which you are expected not to be GC, so really it’s about his interests and those of his friend who prescribed puberty blockers that I imagine is driving his circumspection. Not very principled.

Agree @Radiatorvalves

@bibliotek

so what is the compromise? Having unisex third spaces has always been acceptable to GC campaigners - it’s the idea that all single sex spaces must be opened up and females deserve no protection from any male who says they are a woman (or signs a piece of paper and pays £10) because trans women are exactly the same as females that is the sticking point. Once you accept this isn’t the case and policy lines have to be drawn and it’s ok to debate how to draw them, then to be honest it is a smaller debate than the one that has occupied so much time because everyone is GC, it’s just a question of degree. You are, in TRA parlance “questioning TW right to exist” because you don’t consider any TW a full female. The issue that many trans activists have is that the general population pictures someone who has had all the operations when they are at their most accommodating, but that really is only 5% of the category. Those who are holding the placards saying “suck my lady dick” or similar are not going to win much sympathy and are only interested in full capitulation. So what compromises are available and who is going to agree them from the TRA side?

personally, I have no issue with using someone’s pronouns - I don’t actually believe anyone has change sex and no one can compel me to, but I would be polite and kind where I can. Where it matters to a situation that someone is female, I would expect to be able to talk about this, however, even if it is experienced as hurtful.

" Rory doesn’t realise that just a couple of years ago it was very difficult to have that conversation at all and that it is only the work of a few very brave U.K. women that has allowed him to go even as far as his mealy mouthed comments."

He does though because in the Q&A ep this week, he referenced in relation to leftwing censorship how Kathleen Stock feels her career was ruined because she was speaking out about biological sex. Hes also referenced listening to the witchtrials of JK Rowling.

I think hes completely aware of the GC position and still tries to pretend like 3rd spaces is a compromise the TRAs would be willing to take and only someone as moderate as him could come up with it.

Its here from 11:35

Exactly this!

@miri1985oh interesting. Haven’t listened to that one - wasn’t sure I could take it! Is it worth it?

And @miri1985i think what I should have said was “Rory doesn’t acknowledge, rather than Rory doesn’t realise” - I agree that he realises, he just doesn’t want to credit the women’s movement behind it

Not really, Doc Stock is mentioned briefly but there isn't any substantial discussion about what she faced or anything and no real reaction from Alastair.

The Double Jeopardy podcast was excellent, which is hardly surprising since its focus is on legal analysis. The judgment is very clear, and AC’s “confusion” is either that he hasn’t read it or it doesn’t fit with what he wants the law to mean or most likely both. Plus he obviously doesn’t really engage on things affecting women. I really hate it when men try to talk about women’s issues only from the limited perspective of the women they live with and so have to interact with. When you research anything else you look to broader resources, so why not this? Because it isn’t worthy of your time? Because women should be a monolith? It’s lazy at best.

I stopped subscribing a few months ago. I did laugh at someone describing Rory as ‘Florence of Belgravia’. He’s certainly becoming more pompous as he ages.

I now listen to The Rest is Politics USA, and The News Agents.

'I now listen to The Rest is Politics USA, and The News Agents.'

The News Agents episode about the judgement was really disappointing - Jon and Lewis honking on about how it affects only a tiny minority of people, and Emily not challenging them on that

Do TRIP USA discuss gender ideology at all?