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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Regulator to write to unis over TG policy

20 replies

FinallyASunnyDay · 08/04/2025 08:02

Anyone seen this?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/apr/07/regulator-to-write-to-universities-in-england-over-transgender-equality-policies

"England’s higher education regulator has said it is writing to institutions that have transgender equality policies similar to the University of Sussex, which was handed a record £585,000 fine last month for failing to uphold freedom of speech.
The Office for Students (OfS) said it would not yet name the vice-chancellors being contacted, “but we will be writing to a handful of providers where we have identified that they have – on the face of it – similar policies in this area to Sussex”."

Factually written article by an education correspondant and the only uni named (as currently 'reviewing' policy) is Bristol.

Regulator to write to universities in England over transgender equality policies

Universities with policies similar to University of Sussex, which received £585,000 fine last month, will be contacted

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/apr/07/regulator-to-write-to-universities-in-england-over-transgender-equality-policies

OP posts:
TheOtherRaven · 08/04/2025 08:12

Well that's positive! Nothing like a half million cost to make people start to think again about how not having policies that trample over women's equality in law to benefit men might be a good idea.

Dare we hope the NHS might follow after the next two cases conclude? It won't take them any effort, a group of brilliant and fed up unpaid MNetters have already done all the work for them.

But doesn't it just show so clearly how women's legal equalities are barely worth the paper they are written on across the British establishment until everyone spends months and a few million for a judge to enforce it?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 08/04/2025 08:15

FinallyASunnyDay · 08/04/2025 08:02

Anyone seen this?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/apr/07/regulator-to-write-to-universities-in-england-over-transgender-equality-policies

"England’s higher education regulator has said it is writing to institutions that have transgender equality policies similar to the University of Sussex, which was handed a record £585,000 fine last month for failing to uphold freedom of speech.
The Office for Students (OfS) said it would not yet name the vice-chancellors being contacted, “but we will be writing to a handful of providers where we have identified that they have – on the face of it – similar policies in this area to Sussex”."

Factually written article by an education correspondant and the only uni named (as currently 'reviewing' policy) is Bristol.

That’s an astonishingly balanced article for the Graun! To the extent that I went and looked at the author’s other articles - she has one on the UCU tribunal which is also almost as balanced.

Dare we hope that this is more than a blip?

Lovelyview · 08/04/2025 08:35

I'm ashamed to say I didn't really understand misogyny until I saw people falling over themselves to accommodate men who said they were women while completely ignoring the women who said they weren't. Glad to see some sanity returning.

Lovelyview · 08/04/2025 08:36

Lovelyview · 08/04/2025 08:35

I'm ashamed to say I didn't really understand misogyny until I saw people falling over themselves to accommodate men who said they were women while completely ignoring the women who said they weren't. Glad to see some sanity returning.

Actually not just ignoring - vilifying.

Helleofabore · 08/04/2025 08:40

Arif Ahmed is really doing what he indicated was needed for freedom of speech.

highame · 08/04/2025 08:46

I'm trying to work out how good this will be. It's about free speech and that has had a massive impact on GC views. However, it doesn't, I think prevent a University from declaring TWAW and opening up women only spaces to men. Unless I've misunderstood. Though I think the two do go hand in hand and free speech is essential for women's rights to be argued against gender identity and break down the idiotic arguments or lack of that have prevailed over the last nearly 20 years.

FinallyASunnyDay · 08/04/2025 08:54

highame · 08/04/2025 08:46

I'm trying to work out how good this will be. It's about free speech and that has had a massive impact on GC views. However, it doesn't, I think prevent a University from declaring TWAW and opening up women only spaces to men. Unless I've misunderstood. Though I think the two do go hand in hand and free speech is essential for women's rights to be argued against gender identity and break down the idiotic arguments or lack of that have prevailed over the last nearly 20 years.

Indeed. I have a family member who works across many universities and has been peaked by the almost universal inability to find a women's (not gender neutral) loo.

Separately, I have had the misfortune to come into contact with Bristol medical educators. I wonder whether all this will impact their teaching of gender identity as fact? I guess it means dissenting students/staff may be able to speak up - hopefully it breaks the group think but it will all take time.

Still, it's all the right direction of travel!

OP posts:
TwoLoonsAndASprout · 08/04/2025 08:59

I think it’s about not silencing the dissenters. If anecdata are right, and the vast majority of the population disagree that TWAW and should be allowed to be in women-only spaces, then removing the chilling effect and allowing them to speak without fear of being JKR-ed, then it should become clear quite quickly that Things Are Currently Not Ok.

Helleofabore · 08/04/2025 09:00

highame · 08/04/2025 08:46

I'm trying to work out how good this will be. It's about free speech and that has had a massive impact on GC views. However, it doesn't, I think prevent a University from declaring TWAW and opening up women only spaces to men. Unless I've misunderstood. Though I think the two do go hand in hand and free speech is essential for women's rights to be argued against gender identity and break down the idiotic arguments or lack of that have prevailed over the last nearly 20 years.

It may only address some of the issues. Allowing open discussion would at least be a start.

This prevailing theme of you can think it but saying anything about how identities should not be prioritised over sex when sex matters and using accurate language should not happen because it causes pain is very concerning. As is the denial it is happening when directly asked questions on it in court. When people say in court that no one is stopping people expressing their beliefs that sex is more important but cannot give an example of what statements would be acceptable, it just highlights the falsity of it all.

sweetsardineface · 08/04/2025 09:12

Anything that forces universities to frame their policies within the law sounds good to me. They’ve been making it up for the last few years.

MarieDeGournay · 08/04/2025 09:13

sweetsardineface · 08/04/2025 09:12

Anything that forces universities to frame their policies within the law sounds good to me. They’ve been making it up for the last few years.

I agree.
If nothing else, the Sussex fine has highlighted that many institutions eg universities, have placed the 'rights' of transgender people above all others.

Clearly above the rights of women, but also above the rights of disabled people in a very practical way, when accessible loos are handed over to able-bodied trans people, and above the rights of other groups in society who haven't traditionally made it to higher ed, who also had to go to the bottom of the DEI pyramid.

It was the opposite of diversity, it was a sort of monoculture favouring one tiny, self-identified, highly controversial group in society.

'Trans rights are human rights', but that's all they are; they aren't more important than anybody else's rights, and that's what unis are being called out on.

ValerieDoonican · 08/04/2025 09:19

Agree @Helleofabore

"One of the clauses required academics to “positively represent trans people and trans lives” in course materials.

In other words, to conceal reality .

Yet according to this morning's Bluesky groupthink, refusing to lie (including presumably about difficulties trans people themselves may be enduring in their lives?) is tantamount to inviting "a barrage of abuse or comments saying [trans people] don't exist."

Its absolutely turning the imagined victimhood up to 11.

If the speed camera tells me I was doing 85 even though as my speedometer is broken I absolutely believed it was 60, is that speed camera saying me and my car don't exist?

It's so infuriatingly SILLY.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 08/04/2025 10:18

@MarieDeGournay:

'Trans rights are human rights', but that's all they are; they aren't more important than anybody else's rights

and

@ValerieDoonican:

If the speed camera tells me I was doing 85 even though as my speedometer is broken I absolutely believed it was 60, is that speed camera saying me and my car don't exist?

Excellent words. Two very different but perfectly articulated ways of saying the same thing. Sure there are some people who say they are trans - they exist! And they, like everyone else on the planet, are entitled to certain rights - we call these human rights. And they, like everyone else on the planet, do not get extra human rights that trample other people’s rights. And not getting those extra rights does not make them suddenly not exist, or indeed indicate that anyone wants them to not exist.

I’ve said it before, they are like children having temper tantrums.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/04/2025 10:41

Good to see this. At last universities are being held to account for their denial of women's rights and the laws of the land.
Now for the NHS & schools....

Chrysanthemum5 · 08/04/2025 10:47

Sounds good but it is only England so will have no effect in the sanity-free Scottish universities

TheOtherRaven · 08/04/2025 12:15

Helleofabore · 08/04/2025 09:00

It may only address some of the issues. Allowing open discussion would at least be a start.

This prevailing theme of you can think it but saying anything about how identities should not be prioritised over sex when sex matters and using accurate language should not happen because it causes pain is very concerning. As is the denial it is happening when directly asked questions on it in court. When people say in court that no one is stopping people expressing their beliefs that sex is more important but cannot give an example of what statements would be acceptable, it just highlights the falsity of it all.

Decisions are also being made subconsciously on whose pain 'matters' and whose doesn't.

It's like the call to 'respect' language (but not her language) and 'respect identity' (but not her identity), and to 'be kind' (but not to her), and to 'not cause offense' (but you can offend her, that's fine).

It will continue to not stand up in court. Kerching.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 08/04/2025 12:29

TheOtherRaven · 08/04/2025 12:15

Decisions are also being made subconsciously on whose pain 'matters' and whose doesn't.

It's like the call to 'respect' language (but not her language) and 'respect identity' (but not her identity), and to 'be kind' (but not to her), and to 'not cause offense' (but you can offend her, that's fine).

It will continue to not stand up in court. Kerching.

Edited

This. With bells on!

"I thought you said be kind?

"Yeah but not to people like you, bigot!

🙄

NotAtMyAge · 08/04/2025 12:32

Chrysanthemum5 · 08/04/2025 10:47

Sounds good but it is only England so will have no effect in the sanity-free Scottish universities

Or the Welsh. 😬

anyolddinosaur · 08/04/2025 12:48

Hopefully they are keeping a very close eye on the Open University - because they have form in this area.

PoppySeedBagelRedux · 08/04/2025 13:25

FinallyASunnyDay · 08/04/2025 08:54

Indeed. I have a family member who works across many universities and has been peaked by the almost universal inability to find a women's (not gender neutral) loo.

Separately, I have had the misfortune to come into contact with Bristol medical educators. I wonder whether all this will impact their teaching of gender identity as fact? I guess it means dissenting students/staff may be able to speak up - hopefully it breaks the group think but it will all take time.

Still, it's all the right direction of travel!

I wonder if the medical insurers know about this. Given it is important to know if you’re treating a man or a woman, surely Bristol graduates will be more likely to give incorrect treatment so are a riskier group than those taught correct facts.

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