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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Author’s latest book shoehorns trans identified male into women’s friendship group.

144 replies

mylittlekomododragon · 07/04/2025 17:25

I have the latest audio book by an author whose books I usually enjoy, but am struggling because a trans identified male has been shoe horned into a women’s friendship group, a menopause group no less, and is welcomed with open arms by simpering handmaidens, apart from one big bad terf who is painted as an out of touch bigot. The character goes on to discuss menopause symptoms, saying they understand, but it felt so jarring. So disappointing, as in a previous book this author had made a comment that made me think she was gender critical, but the pandering to this trans character is staggering. The whole character arc felt contrived, and coming from a 60 year old woman, was almost as disappointing as Margaret Atwood!

OP posts:
Chersfrozenface · 09/04/2025 09:36

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 09/04/2025 08:35

Ah, but then anyone caught in its loop would have to say that Monica Powers is a man, and I don't think Monica would like that at all.

Further reading informs me that what the Lasso does, amongst other things, is get rid of illusions and force anyone held by it to tell and understand the absolute truth.

No, Monica Powers really wouldn't want to use it.

SionnachRuadh · 09/04/2025 09:43

Monica Powers is a new one on me. I'm afraid I can't help thinking of Austin Powers in drag.

Chersfrozenface · 09/04/2025 09:46

SionnachRuadh · 09/04/2025 09:43

Monica Powers is a new one on me. I'm afraid I can't help thinking of Austin Powers in drag.

😂😂😂

Chersfrozenface · 09/04/2025 09:49

SionnachRuadh · 09/04/2025 09:43

Monica Powers is a new one on me. I'm afraid I can't help thinking of Austin Powers in drag.

And I give you

Author’s latest book shoehorns trans identified male into women’s friendship group.
GarlicSmile · 09/04/2025 09:49

mylittlekomododragon · 08/04/2025 09:14

I listened again to the contrived menopause group scene, and it’s actually worse than I thought. After the nasty bigoted terf has left, much to everyone’s relief, (after stating biological fact) the 6 foot tall TIM is welcomed to the “guest of honour chair”. Dick pandering at its finest.

Maybe she's not thinking of her core readership so much, but about encouraging Netflix to dramatise it? They absolutely HAVE to have a male woman or several in everything!

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 09/04/2025 10:04

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 09/04/2025 08:44

I read a book a couple of years ago and now I can't remember for the life of me what it was called or who it was by. I was going through a fluffy romance phase and bought a load of chick lit on my Kindle including some by authors I had never read before.

Anyway, this particular book, if I remember correctly, centred around a family where a dad in his 50s or 60s with adult children was engaged to a beautiful woman the same age as his kids. The woman is obviously very young and beautiful but quite distant, and it is implied that she had a deep, dark, secret. At some point we are privy to an exchange between her and her brother during which we learn that she is estranged from their parents. The adult son of the father is struggling with his conflicting feelings towards his future stepmother. On the one hand he mistrusts her, thinks she's only after his father's money, knows she has some sort of terrible secret, and is trying to find out what it is. On the other hand, the more he tries to find out what her secret is, the more he starts to realise he is attracted to/in love with her himself.

At the very end of the book the young woman ends up breaking up with the father and getting together with the son, and we learn - literally in the last chapter - that her deep, dark secret is that she is actually a trans woman. As far as I can remember, the book ends with them about to have sex and the trans woman telling her ex future stepson and new boyfriend that he won't even notice that her vagina isn't a natural one, and that if anything it's better than the real thing.

If it had been a paperback book I would have put it on the compost heap in disgust, but as it was a Kindle book I think I must have settled for permanently deleting it from my purchased books, which is why I can't find it or tell you what it was.

In all fairness, the book was a bit crap even before I got to the end but I was ploughing through because I don't like to leave books unfinished, only for the moral of the story to be that we can't tell whether someone is male or female and that a mangina is better than the real thing.

There's been a thread about a different novel with a similar theme:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5062981-end-of-story-by-ajfinn-massive-spoilers

'end of story' by a.j.finn (massive spoilers) | Mumsnet

I just read this novel (by the author of the very successful 'woman in the window'), and I am quite angry about how misleading it is, both factually,...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5062981-end-of-story-by-ajfinn-massive-spoilers

Grammarnut · 09/04/2025 23:40

A prolific lady. Looks like a people pleaser. Shall remember to avoid.

DialSquare · 10/04/2025 09:54

SPOLER ALERT FOR INFERNIUM BY KERI LAKE

Strangely enough, I just finished an audiobook where towards the end, one of the characters was discovered to be a transwoman. However, it was only mentioned as it related to childhood trauma and didn’t feel shoehorned in to the story. And wasn’t mentioned again after that so didn’t bother me too much. Incorrect pronouns were used but that’s how the character had been known from the start.

It’s the second book of a dark fantasy duology by Keri Lake and it’s called Infernium. I did prefer the first book though.

EDITED TO ADD SPOLER ALERT

nolongersurprised · 10/04/2025 11:47

I read an Australian book last year - can’t remember the title at all - where I felt it was spoilt by gender ideology and I couldn’t finish it. It wasn’t bad overall, a bit derivative of Meg Mason’s Sorrow and Bliss but ruined by the author constantly having to pont out how inclusive she was.

The main character is a single woman recovering from a mental health breakdown and is tentatively reemerging into the world. She’s got a deprecatory sense of humour and is an interesting mix of fragile and belligerent. She finds solace and peace in a single-sex, clothes-optional swimming area in a Sydney beach, and visits every day. Except of course, it’s not single-sex, it’s inclusive of TiMs and the bloody author reminds us of that every chapter of so.

Even then, I might have ploughed through, but lost interest when the plucky niece asks the main character, “Is your therapist a girl or a boy?”. To which, of course, the stupid answer is, “I don’t know, they haven’t told me yet”. 🙄🙄. At that point, I gave up, I’ll never know if a kind TiM at the #bekind swimming area lifted the protagonist out of her depression with a hilarious, affirming drag show or not.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/04/2025 15:36

I've been having another look through the Ruth Galloway books for references to Janet Meadows.

Janet first appears in Book 4, which was published in 2011.

Here is Ruth's first encounter with Janet:

As soon as Ruth meets Janet Meadows she realises why Cathbad said that she was the perfect person to ask about Bishop Augustine. Janet, a tall elegant woman in black, is clearly a male to female transsexual. She tells Ruth as much, as soon they sit down in the refectory, a striking modern building built next to the medieval cathedral. ‘Think it’s best to get this out of the way. I used to be Jan Tomaschewski. I published quite a lot under that name. Five years ago I became Janet. It’s better to say so straight away, otherwise you’ll be thinking to yourself “Isn’t she tall? Hasn’t she got big hands?” I used to be a man. End of story.’

Janet appears again in Book 6 (published in 2014) and Book 8 (published 2016), which contains this paragraph:

Cathbad is interested by the mention of Janet’s son, Tom. He knows that Janet doesn’t see Tom, who is now grown up, also that Janet (whose name was once Jan) is not Tom’s mother, but his biological father. Janet is open about her gender realignment surgery, but rarely mentions her old life.

No appearances in Books 9 through 13, but Janet seems to feature quite heavily in Book 14, which was published in 2022 and which I haven't read yet. I only did a word search on the Kindle book but didn't want to look too closely in case of spoilers.

I'm quite intrigued by this, because I think the passages I've quoted from Books 4 and 8 might be considered quite problematic by some trans activists. Even though Janet is portrayed as an unambiguously good egg throughout the series, the overall message seems to be "Janet does not pass, and this does not matter." Which is something that I can in principle agree with.

And at the time books 4, 6 and 8 were published, trans issues weren't high on anyone's political agenda and no one was trying to cancel JK Rowling for saying that only women menstruate.

Perhaps for this reason, it reads like a well meaning and natural portrayal of a trans person as a minor character. I am imagining that perhaps Elly Griffiths has a trans friend or met a lovely trans person who served as inspiration for the character of Janet.

Of course, Janet is a character in a book series, not a real person. And the advantage of being a character as opposed to a real person is that there will never be any awkward moment in Janet and Ruth's acquaintance where Janet pops into the ladies' loos and Ruth thinks, "Hmm, really?", or Ruth is fine with it but other women in there are visibly uncomfortable. Because characters in books don't ever need to pee unless the author decides that them needing to pee is relevant to the plot in some way. So the subject can be neatly avoided in a way that it can't in real life.

Several people I used to know have transitioned since I last saw them. One of them was on my university course and has been married for nearly 20 years and has two children. The marriage still seems to be going strong. But now the person I formerly knew as Stuart now goes by Susie wears bras and skirts and nail varnish. Susie and I sometimes like each other's posts on Facebook. I'm sure that if I met Susie again now I'd behave much in the same way that Ruth does towards Janet. But if Susie used the women's toilets while we were together I'd feel horribly conflicted. Because I wouldn't want to start a debate with an actual trans person about where they should be allowed to pee, and at the same time I would feel that by saying nothing I was letting down all the women and girls who need single sex spaces. This is the kind of conflict that could arise in real life, that Ruth will never be faced with in the books.

Of course, if Elly Griffiths wanted to shoehorn in some casual trans activism, she could have chosen to include a moment where Ruth and Janet both pop to the ladies' loos together and encounter a humourless old bag who demands to know what a man is doing in her toilets, and gentle Janet feels humiliated until courageous Ruth sticks up for her.

I'll be interested to see if the references to Janet are any more political in Book 14 than they have been up to now, or whether it will continue to be a fairly uncomplicated portrayal of a pleasant middle aged historian who happens to be transgender.

Personally, if I were Elly Griffiths, enjoying a successful writing career in the current political climate, I would be cautiously congratulating myself on having made a fairly inoffensive attempt at trans inclusion before the topic really became a political hot potato, and not touching it again with a bargepole.

BackToLurk · 15/04/2025 15:56

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 07/04/2025 19:58

I have recently abandoned 3 books with non-binary characters shoehorned in for no apparently good reason except to demonstrate the author’s right on credentials. The books were just impossible to read. Which “they” do you mean? The single person “they,” who is standing over there, or the group of people “they,” who are also, oh look, standing over there? Argh! Maybe a more talented writer could have made it understandable, but I just didn’t have the patience to work it out every time.

On the other hand I’ve just read a Kate Atkinson with an old school drag queen in, who is a great and broadly sympathetic character, but Atkinson still gets a slight swipe in at ‘pronouns’ and uses the phrase ‘a grotesque caricature of womanhood’ (or similar, I'm doing it from memory)

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/04/2025 15:59

BackToLurk · 15/04/2025 15:56

On the other hand I’ve just read a Kate Atkinson with an old school drag queen in, who is a great and broadly sympathetic character, but Atkinson still gets a slight swipe in at ‘pronouns’ and uses the phrase ‘a grotesque caricature of womanhood’ (or similar, I'm doing it from memory)

Which book is that?

BackToLurk · 15/04/2025 16:02

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/04/2025 15:59

Which book is that?

Big Sky

mylittlekomododragon · 15/04/2025 17:24

I actually finished the book as I usually listen to my audiobooks in the car, and I had a couple of longer journeys on my own. Overall it was an inoffensive if rather predictable story, but guess what, in the happy ever after wedding ending our plucky TIM dons sky high heels and a silk dress to join the cohort of bridesmaids! Do better, Milly. I won’t be buying any more of your books.

OP posts:
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/04/2025 17:41

Honestly, she isn't a good writer anyway. My mum liked her books so I read a few of them after she had finished. I got bored after one which took place on a cruise, where she described in minute detail what each of the four female characters had to eat at each meal. I swear it must have accounted for 25% of the pages.

WorriedOnion · 15/04/2025 18:10

clarabenton · 08/04/2025 18:09

I hate this. I read a book recently which I thought would be safe, The Land Of Lost Things by John Connolly. Sequel to one of my favourite ever books, The Book Of Lost Things. Set in a fantasy world.

It features a non-binary dryad who goes by they/them pronouns. So we are left with sentences such as - ‘The dryad watched the hunter and the girl walk out their cottage. They slipped into the forest.’

Who did? The dryad, or the hunter and the girl? And it goes on like this throughout.

ps shameless self plug, my novel, Spiked, that came out in January, features some TERF content. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by some people who have quietly whispered to me that I was brave and that they really enjoyed it. Others, mostly expected, have told me they were going to read it and not said another word, presumably offended by the points made about men not belonging in women’s spaces! I was ready for it though and quite happy to be on the wrong side of history in their eyes, if supporting men in women’s spaces is the right side!

Sadly I have quite a long list of authors I just can’t read any more as they’ve shown themselves to be such disappointments on this issue. Jodi Picoult was always one of my favourite writers, and I did like Joanne Harris too. I actually picked up a Milly J Xmas book from our phone box library yesterday that I was saving for December but might not read it now if that’s the kind of nonsense I can expect.

I can highly recommend Spiked, it's definitely worth a read.

Ddakji · 15/04/2025 18:17

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/04/2025 15:36

I've been having another look through the Ruth Galloway books for references to Janet Meadows.

Janet first appears in Book 4, which was published in 2011.

Here is Ruth's first encounter with Janet:

As soon as Ruth meets Janet Meadows she realises why Cathbad said that she was the perfect person to ask about Bishop Augustine. Janet, a tall elegant woman in black, is clearly a male to female transsexual. She tells Ruth as much, as soon they sit down in the refectory, a striking modern building built next to the medieval cathedral. ‘Think it’s best to get this out of the way. I used to be Jan Tomaschewski. I published quite a lot under that name. Five years ago I became Janet. It’s better to say so straight away, otherwise you’ll be thinking to yourself “Isn’t she tall? Hasn’t she got big hands?” I used to be a man. End of story.’

Janet appears again in Book 6 (published in 2014) and Book 8 (published 2016), which contains this paragraph:

Cathbad is interested by the mention of Janet’s son, Tom. He knows that Janet doesn’t see Tom, who is now grown up, also that Janet (whose name was once Jan) is not Tom’s mother, but his biological father. Janet is open about her gender realignment surgery, but rarely mentions her old life.

No appearances in Books 9 through 13, but Janet seems to feature quite heavily in Book 14, which was published in 2022 and which I haven't read yet. I only did a word search on the Kindle book but didn't want to look too closely in case of spoilers.

I'm quite intrigued by this, because I think the passages I've quoted from Books 4 and 8 might be considered quite problematic by some trans activists. Even though Janet is portrayed as an unambiguously good egg throughout the series, the overall message seems to be "Janet does not pass, and this does not matter." Which is something that I can in principle agree with.

And at the time books 4, 6 and 8 were published, trans issues weren't high on anyone's political agenda and no one was trying to cancel JK Rowling for saying that only women menstruate.

Perhaps for this reason, it reads like a well meaning and natural portrayal of a trans person as a minor character. I am imagining that perhaps Elly Griffiths has a trans friend or met a lovely trans person who served as inspiration for the character of Janet.

Of course, Janet is a character in a book series, not a real person. And the advantage of being a character as opposed to a real person is that there will never be any awkward moment in Janet and Ruth's acquaintance where Janet pops into the ladies' loos and Ruth thinks, "Hmm, really?", or Ruth is fine with it but other women in there are visibly uncomfortable. Because characters in books don't ever need to pee unless the author decides that them needing to pee is relevant to the plot in some way. So the subject can be neatly avoided in a way that it can't in real life.

Several people I used to know have transitioned since I last saw them. One of them was on my university course and has been married for nearly 20 years and has two children. The marriage still seems to be going strong. But now the person I formerly knew as Stuart now goes by Susie wears bras and skirts and nail varnish. Susie and I sometimes like each other's posts on Facebook. I'm sure that if I met Susie again now I'd behave much in the same way that Ruth does towards Janet. But if Susie used the women's toilets while we were together I'd feel horribly conflicted. Because I wouldn't want to start a debate with an actual trans person about where they should be allowed to pee, and at the same time I would feel that by saying nothing I was letting down all the women and girls who need single sex spaces. This is the kind of conflict that could arise in real life, that Ruth will never be faced with in the books.

Of course, if Elly Griffiths wanted to shoehorn in some casual trans activism, she could have chosen to include a moment where Ruth and Janet both pop to the ladies' loos together and encounter a humourless old bag who demands to know what a man is doing in her toilets, and gentle Janet feels humiliated until courageous Ruth sticks up for her.

I'll be interested to see if the references to Janet are any more political in Book 14 than they have been up to now, or whether it will continue to be a fairly uncomplicated portrayal of a pleasant middle aged historian who happens to be transgender.

Personally, if I were Elly Griffiths, enjoying a successful writing career in the current political climate, I would be cautiously congratulating myself on having made a fairly inoffensive attempt at trans inclusion before the topic really became a political hot potato, and not touching it again with a bargepole.

I think my gripe was the way Ruth just accept “I was a man” when she knows full well Janet is still a man. We “hear” Ruth’s thoughts about a lot of things, she’s quite dogmatic about atheism, about politics - but, as we know is usual, her intelligence and her scepticism vanish in the face of trans.

It felt shoehorned in, even though it was written quite a few years back, but I guess EG lives in Brighton which is trans central.

EG also seemed to become quite pally with the odious Robin Stevens when she (EG) released her first children’s book, RS is a colossal TRA and really nasty bully in kidlit, married to an equally odious kids’ publishing TIM (and has a baby with him), but I get the feeling that may have cooled off a bit.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/04/2025 19:22

Ddakji · 15/04/2025 18:17

I think my gripe was the way Ruth just accept “I was a man” when she knows full well Janet is still a man. We “hear” Ruth’s thoughts about a lot of things, she’s quite dogmatic about atheism, about politics - but, as we know is usual, her intelligence and her scepticism vanish in the face of trans.

It felt shoehorned in, even though it was written quite a few years back, but I guess EG lives in Brighton which is trans central.

EG also seemed to become quite pally with the odious Robin Stevens when she (EG) released her first children’s book, RS is a colossal TRA and really nasty bully in kidlit, married to an equally odious kids’ publishing TIM (and has a baby with him), but I get the feeling that may have cooled off a bit.

Just gone down a bit of a Google rabbit hole re Elly Griffiths and Robin Stevens.

Elly Griffiths has pronouns in her Instagram bio, so I think we have to assume that she either believes TWAW or feels compelled to pretend that she believes it. With that in mind, we can hardly expect her main character to be a card carrying TERF, even if she is an archaeologist. I sort of get what you mean about Janet being shoehorned in, but (so far at least) I feel that it has been done innocuously enough not to detract from my enjoyment of the books. I think the descriptions of Janet are sufficiently grounded in reality not to annoy me (it is made very clear on several occasions that Janet is male), and I don't feel there is unnecessary moralising going on. Janet is just a character like any other. As I said before, the existence of trans characters in literature isn't a problem for me, as long as I don't feel I'm being lectured to about my unacceptably TERFy beliefs.

Unrelated: Elly Griffiths' real name is Domenica de Rosa. If I had a real name like that I would not use a pen name!

I had never heard of Robin Stevens before and looked her up too. It's a shame she's apparently a piece of work because her books sound great.

Ddakji · 15/04/2025 19:26

Her books are good @MissScarletInTheBallroom, but there’s no way on God’s earth I’m giving her a bean of my money. I can’t imagine what her relationship is like with her husband nor how their are bringing that poor child up.

Children’s publishing is a profoundly censorious and unpleasant place. I can imagine any new kids’ author wants to keep their head down because the TRAs are vicious and will hunt you down mercilessly. So I don’t really know what EG genuinely thinks.

She’s written some romances under her real name, pre the Ruth books. Not bad, but Ruth is much better!

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/04/2025 19:36

@Ddakji I would love to write, but publishing just seems like such a toxic industry at the moment. I think that unless you are literally JK Rowling, being outed as a TERF is basically the kiss of death for your writing career, particularly in children's literature. So you're right, we have no way of knowing what Elly Griffiths really thinks, and based on the way Janet is described and the lack of overt proselytising, I would hazard a guess that she is just toeing the line.

As for Robin Stevens, I would honestly love to know what is really going on in the heads of these women whose husbands fly to Málaga Airport. Are they genuinely cool with it, or are they living a lie so their spouse can live "their truth"?

mylittlekomododragon · 15/04/2025 19:59

Robin Stevens is very disappointing. She also reminds me of Amanda Jette Knox, same mad eyes. Maybe that’s from coping with the reality of a TIM husband.

OP posts:
AstonsGerbil · 15/04/2025 20:20

mylittlekomododragon · 15/04/2025 19:59

Robin Stevens is very disappointing. She also reminds me of Amanda Jette Knox, same mad eyes. Maybe that’s from coping with the reality of a TIM husband.

I'd never heard of this robin either and I looked her up and OMFG her husband!!!! 😱

I do not understand these women at all. I also didn't know who that Amanda person was. Ugh. Clearly internalising their mental suffering and turning on anyone that shines a light on the truth of what their husbands are. Oh dear. Dear dear dear.

mylittlekomododragon · 15/04/2025 20:21

@AstonsGerbil yes the husband is an absolute unit isn’t he?!

OP posts:
AstonsGerbil · 15/04/2025 20:29

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WomensRightsRenegade · 15/04/2025 22:36

Picked up the new (first?) book by Broadchurch creator Chris Chibnall and just by reading the blurb worked out that there’s an obligatory ‘non-binary’ character (Frankie) in it. So fucking tedious. Put the book straight back down