English Blackball Pool Federation

[Signalbox]

The hearing is scheduled for 7th-11th April at Canterbury County Court.

Tribunal Tweets will be following the case…

Live tweeting sessions Abbreviations
J - His Honour Judge Parker
HH - Harriet Haynes, claimant
RW - Robin White, claimant’s barrister
CC - Colman Coyle, claimant's solicitor
EBPF - English Blackball Pool Federation
PT - Paul Thomson, defendant
AG - Anna Goodwin, defendant
SC - Sarah Crowther KC, defendants’ barristers, and
SS - Sapandeep Singh Maini-Thompson
JRL - JR Levins LLP, defendants’ solicitor
JG - James Goodwin, witness for defendant

The original thread has been deleted for “breaking Mumsnet guidelines”. Not sure why but possibly “misgendering” or possibly making it too easy to find the crowdfund @mumsnet it would be good if you could let us know so this thread can stay up. Do we have to pretend that the Claimant is female?

If we say the bad truths 3 times, RMW will pop up on the thread like Beetlejuice.

It's happened before, despite being wildly inappropriate in the context of an ongoing case.

Moo ha ha.

Fair point. I would argue there could be no misgendering if the person using the correct sex pronouns held a genuine belief that biological sex matters.Nobody in a democratic society should be forced to perform belief in a non-reality based ideology.

But I take your point that being the ones to defend that in court would be costly and time-consuming, even if entirely in the right and a dead-cert to win. And we know there are some who are both vindictive and labouring under heavy delusional entitlement. And we also know already the police are over stepping in these cases.

Bundlejuice! 🤣

I did send them a message asking them to clarify this point. They have said it’s about context. I think to be on the safe side it’s probably best not to refer to the men involved in this case as “he”.

Ultimate Pool prize money.
**
Winner: £1,800
Runner-Up: £900
Semi-Finalist: £450
Quarter-Finalist: £250
Last 16: £100
The two [people] in the final made a combined £2,700. That's equal to the earnings of the rest of the 14 female prize winners combined.
The payouts from the open series are larger than the women's and are almost always taken by men, which is why the women's series exists. At this Ultimate Pool and Women's Ultimate Pool event, male athletes went home with a combined £31,700. Female competitors left with only £2,700 of the £5,400 that was allocated specifically for them. Men have taken over $48,000 in women's pool events.

https://x.com/hecheateddotorg/status/1909087273641300248

That is stark and sobering in several ways.

Context being that the person is male so masculine pronouns are correct for his sex?

I have played the (silly) game and not used the correct sex pronoun.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/04/07/the-all-male-womens-pool-final/amp/

Yet to read the afternoon session, just commenting (or bragging) i was fucking well right.

RMW is arguing that TWAW in a roundabout fashion, thems are saying that the ordinary male is not the correct compareter, and the legal arguments them made are fanciful to say the very least.

IANAL, but grateful for RMW for encouraging me to educate myself.

Is there a way that we can make a donation to give some prize money to the rightful women winner and runner up?

Sounds like a thought to be considered

Then going on the facebook group and asking them to declare if he makes them feel unsafe. That is more bullish than distressed.

Absolutely.

It's sooo, 'go on punk make my day'.

Isn't there caselaw that the comparator for GR discrimination is a male without the PC of GR? I thought I read somewhere that there was but not certain.

I thought the judge was a bit short with HH at times. When HH was going overboard on how upset HH was the judge cut HH off a couple of times to keep HH on track. The judge didn't seem that interested in HH's feelings.

Which surely undermines the whole thing as it's all about how HH feels they are a woman. Either the feelz count or they don't.

I reckon you could say he.

I don't think you could say some brick shit house, cock wielding wanker of a bloke.

However accurate

Edited say, that's just a general description, HQ, no one specific

This is what Mumsnet said. I assume it's OK to post what they emailed to me since it applies to us all...

"This is one of those situations where context really does matter – and we appreciate that can be a frustrating answer. The truth is, it’s often just as frustrating to moderate.

As a general example: if someone were to say, “X is male, and for that reason I don’t think they should compete in Y sport against biological women” - that would likely be seen as relevant to the topic and within the rules.

Mumsnet remains one of the few mainstream platforms that allows for openly gender critical viewpoints to be expressed. But we can only maintain that if discussions stay civil - and that means ensuring they’re open to posters with a range of perspectives, including those who may strongly disagree.

Where things are likely to cross the line is when multiple posts start referring to a trans person using “he” or “him” in a way that appears provocative, mocking or needlessly confrontational.

We continue to host these conversations even though they come with significant challenges, from the moderation resource they require to the impact on our advertising. In return, we ask that users help us keep them within the boundaries of our guidelines."

That long?

Thanks @Signalbox

Does anybody know what particular ‘line’ ie law, would be crossed here? Presumably we’re allowed to have personal opinion of somebody, even if others/the person themselves find it offensive.

Where things are likely to cross the line is when multiple posts start referring to a trans person using “he” or “him” in a way that appears provocative, mocking or needlessly confrontational

Where things are likely to cross the line is when multiple posts start referring to a trans person using “he” or “him” in a way that appears provocative, mocking or needlessly confrontational.

That reminds me of the Sandie Peggie case where the judge said at the start that they could call a man 'he' as long as they didn't do it gratuitously or too often.

And then we spent two weeks listening to Dr Upton being called he, and being told he was male, with no pushback... presumably because all that was being said was the truth, using words for clarity, accuracy and honesty and in the normal way for spoken English.

Just read this in the Telegraph, Oliver Brown

https://archive.ph/HqCXX

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/snooker/2025/04/07/womens-pool-final-between-two-biological-men-transgender/

Thank you for the Telegraph link.

That’s a good article

Yes that's a good article.

No one is buying this bullshit anymore.

It's not a single comment is even the slightest bit equivocal. Everyone knows it's about rubbish male athletes chancing their arm in the women's league.