What does gender critical mean?

[Yarden]

Just that really. I’m not sure what “gender critical “ means anymore. I am not very critical of gender roles- I think they’re useful as a stereotype. does this mean I’m not gender critical? I guess I’m trans critical as I believe trans ideology is harmful as it encourages harmful interventions. What do others think? I’m so lost in this world now.

I think of gender as the expectations that society places on everyone based on our sex.

I think that although each sex as a group of people might have tendencies, individually our sex doesn't say anything about what someone is like as a person, is good at, what they want in life.

I think it's harmful to act as though it does, therefore I'm critical of gender.

To take it to the extreme and think that this relationship between sex and societal expectations is SO set in stone that to believe your body is wrong because of what you're like as a person - obviously I'm going to be critical of that too.

I don't know what use a stereotype is - can you give an example where it's helpful to make an unevidenced pre-judging of what a person is like based on their sex?

I’ll never be convinced that framing “gender critical” as an official belief in order to win an employment tribunal has helped humanity at large.

I don't think I could agree more.

@popefully has a good definition of being gender critical.

My own take is that sex matters so if I have to label myself I think of myself as a sex realist rather than gender critical necessarily (although I agree broadly with lots of gender critical feminists and I respect the hard graft they have put in to this fight over the years). Sex realism is maybe a broader church than gender critical feminism, and maybe encompasses some more conservative views I don't agree with around sex/gender roles, but I'm okay with that since it's the reality denying aspects of gender identity belief systems that are the problem for me.

I think Sex Matters are clear about their beliefs and aims so maybe helpful if you're trying to clarify your own thoughts https://sex-matters.org/

There is sex realist feminism as well - see https://fairerdisputations.org/
From their website:
"Fairer Disputations is an international community of scholars, public intellectuals, and journalists that aims to advance a sex-realist feminism. We aggregate and publish popular and scholarly articles dedicated to defending a vision of female and male as embodied expressions of human personhood, with special focus on the current threats to women and girls from sex trafficking and prostitution, pornography, gender ideology, and reproductive technology. Though united in an understanding that biological sex is real, we publish an array of perspectives on how society ought properly to accommodate that reality."

I'm a gender atheist. I don't believe gender exists as a 'thing'. It is a homophobic, misogynist, theoretical construct based on enforcing culturally-specific sex-role stereotypes.

I will criticise any attempt to claims that gender can be substituted for sex.

Sex does exist. It's up to us what we do with our lives.

Btw, I'm old enough that I was already out of childhood and into feminism before sociologists started using the word 'gender' to describe human beings, in their endless log-rolling publications. I remember when it was just a grammatical term. We didn't need it then, we don't need it now. Sex is enough.

I don’t think the term “gender critical” is very useful. It’s ambiguous, and has been taken as an attack on transgender people.

Like Dean, I prefer “gender atheist”, and agree with every word she said above.

Can you explain what you mean by gender stereotypes being useful? I think they are harmful and are at the root of the nonsensical concept of transgender identities.

An example where stereotypes are useful is when a child is lost. The child should be advised to ask a woman, preferably a woman with children, for help. The stereotype here is a mother would be more helpful than a single man.

That isn't a stereotype. It's a description of an adult human being of the female sex who is looking after children.

A gendered male adult presenting in a stereotyped female way might not be someone you would want a lost child to approach.

The stereotype here is a mother would be more helpful than a single man.

No , it means that in everyone's experience a random woman is statistically less likely to be a threat to the child than any random maleperson.

But the statistic is what makes the stereotype. Women are statistically more likely to be safer than men. Consequently there is a stereotype created around women that they are safer.
I just looked up the meaning of the word stereotype: “a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing.
"the stereotype of the woman as the carer"“

so some women are not safe, they are exceptions to the rule, they break the stereotype

I didn’t say the child should go to “a gendered male adult presenting in a female stereotype way”. I said the child should go to what looks like as the classic stereotype of safety- a woman with children.
this woman with children might not be a mother and nought not be safe, but it’s a useful stereotype to work with

The stereotype in the example is that a child is safer approaching a women than a man.

Which is true at a general level but can't be used to judge individuals eg she might be Myra Hindley.

We use stereotypes all the time in unconscious decision making, they are essential for us to function as we cannot have all the information required and we couldn't process all the information if available. Stereotypes are necessary cognitive heuristics. The e lower the information environment the more necessary stereotypes are.

We should try to remain aware however that they don't tell us anything about individuals and systems shouldn't be built on assumptions from stereotypes.

Gender could be understood to be the stereotypes we have around sex. To what degree these general observed traits (which is what stereotypes are based on) are innate vs cultural then opens up and is unresolved.

I don't like the term Gender critical because I don't think there is agreement about what we're critical of or why.

I prefer Sex Realist. Whatever your views on Gende, Sex is real binary and immutable.

Stereotypes develop early.
Children will instinctively approach a women rather than a man.

Maybe because they observe women in the role of carers more? Or maybe it's innate?
Or probably both.

It's useful because it's generally true but it doesn't tell you anything about the actual trustworthiness of individual men or women.

Yes I prefer the term sex realist or maybe fact-focused, or well-informed. The term gender critical annoys me as I’m not critical of gender. I think it’s useful to be able to differentiate between men/women (ie sex) and masculine/feminine (ie gender). I think the phrase feminine man and masculine woman are useful and informative.

another example would be in the marketing of beauty and skincare products: advertisers often target women more than men because women, on average, spend more on these products. While this stereotype is not universally true, it helps businesses efficiently allocate resources based on consumer trends.

At the base of it, GC means believing that sex is more important than "gender" and that you cannot change sex.
"Gender" is stereotypes of how people expect people of a particular sex behave.

If that’s what it means @TickingAlongNicely then yes! Perfect! I can jive with that!

I think it is useful to use stereotypes in emergencies. Eg if evacuating a sinking ship, the "women and children first" principle is sometimes applied based on the stereotype that men are generally stronger and better equipped to handle dangerous situations. While this is not always fair or accurate, it has historically been used as a guideline for prioritising safety in crises and I believe it is a good idea

🤔 Gender, I used to think, was a polite term used instead of the word sex.
Once it became acceptable to define an identity it lost any credibility in relation to the factual term it had been used for.

I don’t use it to refer to a person’s sex/sexuality as I don’t think it means the same thing anymore.

I’m critical of people’s use of words that no longer mean what they’re intended to.
Authentic used to mean bona fide, genuine, undisputed, not a copy but original.

I’m Gender Identity critical, Sex Realist is now how I describe myself.

But why do women spend more on these things? Because women are judged more on their looks than men are. Women’s worth is still based on their beauty & how much men want them

that’s why when TW perform womanhood ie female gender stereotypes they focus so much on outward appearance

I think it’s useful to be able to differentiate between men/women (ie sex) and masculine/feminine (ie gender).

It’s essential to differentiate between men and women. That has nothing to do with “gender”, and nothing to do with stereotypes. It’s simply fact.

What do you mean by masculine and feminine? Pertaining to sex, and synonymous with maleness and femaleness, or do you mean “performing gender stereotypes”?

I don't mind the term 'gender critical', although I would describe myself as 'sex realist'.
I am critical of the idea of gender defining people because the apparent basis for the stereotypes is not clearly nature (sex driven) or nurture (societal norms) driven.
Its very limiting and judgemental.
I hate the way 'masculine' and 'feminine' are applied to people based on their adherence to other peoples assessment of their ability to conform to pre-judged societal expectations.
Why can't we just be men and women (biological categories) with our own individual personalities.

That isn’t a stereotype. That is statistical fact.

And tbh the reality is outside the realm of films like titanic , women & children first is not what happens anymore becatse we don’t live in the late 19th century

gcaptain.com/women-and-children-survival-rates-maritime-disaster/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20study%2C%20titled,'every%20man%20for%20himself'.

I've just read back my pervious post and, in attempting to explain myself clearly, its a bit wordy and precious.

Basically, for me, biological sex is real.
Everything else is personality.
Don't limit yourself to fit other people's expectations.