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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Olympics - good news!

67 replies

ArabellaScott · 20/03/2025 15:57

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/cy4v91e3e1wo

First woman president, and:

'During her election campaign Coventry pledged to modernise, promote sustainability, embrace technology and empower athletes.
She placed particular emphasis on protecting female sport, backing a blanket ban of transgender women from competing in female Olympic sport.'

Kirsty Coventry

IOC presidential election: Kirsty Coventry first woman to be elected president

Zimbabwe's sports minister Kirsty Coventry is elected as the new president of the International Olympic Committee after a vote in Greece.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/cy4v91e3e1wo

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 20/03/2025 15:57

'"The young girl who first started swimming in Zimbabwe all those years ago could never have dreamed of this moment," said Coventry, who beat six male rivals to win the vote.
"I am particularly proud to be the first female IOC president, and also the first from Africa.
"I hope that this vote will be an inspiration to many people. Glass ceilings have been shattered today, and I am fully aware of my responsibilities as a role model."

Absolutely brilliant.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 20/03/2025 15:59

So, I assume she will also be ensuring that no males with DSDs are included in the female category.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 20/03/2025 16:02

Right?

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murasaki · 20/03/2025 16:07

While I liked her as a swimmer, I'm not clear on her views re transgender people in sport , so am reserving judgement. Hopefully it will be ok. Glad to see a woman win, but not if she throws other women under the bus.

ArabellaScott · 20/03/2025 16:10

'backing a blanket ban of transgender women from competing in female Olympic sport'

OP posts:
murasaki · 20/03/2025 16:15

ArabellaScott · 20/03/2025 16:10

'backing a blanket ban of transgender women from competing in female Olympic sport'

OK, if that's true, then great.

tobee · 20/03/2025 16:16

The proof of the pudding…

murasaki · 20/03/2025 16:17

Do we know her policy on dsd athletes?

ErrolTheDragon · 20/03/2025 16:17

murasaki · 20/03/2025 16:07

While I liked her as a swimmer, I'm not clear on her views re transgender people in sport , so am reserving judgement. Hopefully it will be ok. Glad to see a woman win, but not if she throws other women under the bus.

It seems pretty clear from that piece.
Hopefully she also understands the issues around males with DSDs.

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2025 16:18

Blanket ban.

Except for the exceptions. Or sex is actually sex?

I am so over the spin and bullshit on this.

ArabellaScott · 20/03/2025 16:18

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2025.01.27-195232/www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2025/01/27/transgender-athletes-face-blanket-ban-at-olympics#selection-2903.0-2933.215" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2025.01.27-195232/www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2025/01/27/transgender-athletes-face-blanket-ban-at-olympics/#selection-2903.0-2933.215

“Protecting the female category and female sports is paramount – it’s a priority that we collectively come together,” said Coventry, who won seven Olympic medals, including two gold, in swimming.
“There is more and more scientific research. We are not having a conversation about how it is detrimental to men’s sport. That, in itself, says we need to protect women’s sport. It is very clear that transgender women are more able in the female category, and can take away opportunities that should be equal for women.”
Coventry was also part of the executive board that handled the huge Olympic controversy in Paris when <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/JgJy1/www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2024/08/04/boxing-paris-2024-live-lin-yu-ting-gender-row-latest-update/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lin Yu-ting and <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/JgJy1/www.telegraph.co.uk/ImaneKhelif/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Imane Khelif won gold after they were previously deemed ineligible for the female category by the International Boxing Association; a governing body that was subsequently stripped of the right to run the sport. Coventry said that “lessons are always going to be learnt – Paris is definitely one of those times”, but claimed that they could not have foreseen the specific controversy.

“I don’t believe that this is something in hindsight that we could have predicted, because these boxers had bouts against each other and there hadn’t been previous issues,” she said.
“When you have such a sensitive issue being put on the global stage you have to make sure that the athletes are being protected – that their rights are being heard – and that they are being protected on both sides.”

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ArabellaScott · 20/03/2025 16:21

https://x.com/runthinkwrite/status/1884213728305893617

Jon Pike:

'Some comments on Kirsty Coventry's new statement which I link to below.

First, this is good news. Everything that any candidate says now, in the run up to the conclave in March, will be directed at winning votes. This statement is a play for votes. These comments show that Coventry thinks there are votes to be won in protecting female sport. She knows far more about the constituency that is voting than me, so this is a very welcome development. (I've no idea whether this appeal to a 'protect women's sport' bloc will work, I'm just very pleased that there is such a bloc).

Second, the attempt to minimise blame for the Paris debacle is implausible. "we couldn't see it coming" is not credible. In order to understand this, you need to realise that the issue of athletes with DSDs is a much bigger issue in elite sport than athletes who are trans. (It's the other way around at sub-elite levels) It is pretty easy to rule out trans-identified men from female competition at the stroke of a pen. This will surely happen: Lauren Hubbard is very likely to be the last trans-identified man competing in the woman's category at the Olympics.

And the opposition to Hubbard that really ocunted was the opposition of female athletes. That #nothankyou form Sarah Robles was both wonderful and influential. ('NB' athletes and trans-identified females will, of course, continue in the female category, and there is no issue).

But there are quite a lot of 46XY DSD athletes in elite sport. Clear cases in football and boxing. Their prominence is due to their competitive male advantage, and this leads to very significant over-representation in female sport. Talk to people involved in sports governance at a high level, and, if they are being honest, they will tell you that this is a really big issue.

By the way, everyone who writes about the issue of 'intersex athletes' or even 'athletes with DSDs' is showing that they don't fully understand the debate. If, as I think, the 'cut' is between some athletes with DSDs (who have male advantage) and other athletes with DSDs (who don't have male advantage) then the recognition that DSDs are heterogeneous is necessary. People with DSDs are sexed. Some people with DSDs are female and have no male advantage.
Others are male and have male advantage. #sexmatters

. So I'm sure they saw this coming. If they didn't see it in the specific form of Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting, then they should have done. Third, this attempt to shift blame makes Coventry a less credible candidate on this than Coe. If I was a potentate on the IOC committee, I'd still vote for Coe. Fourth, I'd like to see concrete commitments form these candidates. One would be: we will ditch the Framework Document and return to the principles of fair sport. I have criticized the framework document at length: it's got to go, and no progress can be made until it does. So, be explicit: scrap that document. Fifth, there has to be a shift of personnel in Lausanne. I won't be too specific, but there has to be a clear out, of staff and advisors.

If you are serious about the integrity of female sport, you need a major cultural and institutional shift away from the lobbies and people who have been advising you and misleading you into this mess. That's it, but I'll post a link to my critique of the IOC's 'framework' document in the next post. And the multi-authored critique below that. I'm confident that many of the authors of the multi-authored critique would be happy to help the new president of the IOC to sort this out. Me included. '

https://x.com/runthinkwrite/status/1884213728305893617

OP posts:
murasaki · 20/03/2025 16:23

I still don't see why having a cheek swab is more demeaning than pissing post race for a drug test.

ArabellaScott · 20/03/2025 16:26

murasaki · 20/03/2025 16:23

I still don't see why having a cheek swab is more demeaning than pissing post race for a drug test.

Quite.

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lcakethereforeIam · 20/03/2025 16:33

I think, because there have been cheating men using fake penises, witnessing the urine sample being...?...dispensed is probably quite intimate. Probably much more intrusive than a once in a lifetime cheek swab.

murasaki · 20/03/2025 16:39

For anyone who knows, a cheek swab is fine. For those that actively know they're lying, tough. I have sympathy for those that didn't know, but I'm afraid the biological sex rules should apply.

tobee · 20/03/2025 16:39

Yes, and according to Gail Emms, the drug tester has to actually hold the test tube for the urine flow to be caught to ensure no shenanigans. Pretty intimate.

murasaki · 20/03/2025 16:42

tobee · 20/03/2025 16:39

Yes, and according to Gail Emms, the drug tester has to actually hold the test tube for the urine flow to be caught to ensure no shenanigans. Pretty intimate.

Edited

I'd much rather have a cheek swab than worry about actually pissing on someone's hand who's holding the test tube. Maybe that's just me, not Khelif, lia Thomas, Semenya etc.

Helleofabore · 20/03/2025 16:43

Sadly, I will wait to see what she does about male people with DSDs. I can imagine that there is a whole lot of pressure on her to not make a decision to require sex testing from numerous nations who are heavily invested in supporting male people with DSDs being their leading 'female' athletes.

She does not sound like she is fully across this issue.

Cynic17 · 20/03/2025 16:43

I don't think she has been as explicit as Seb Coe on the need to protect women's sport, but let's see how she gets on, and hope for the best.

murasaki · 20/03/2025 16:44

There's a worry, and ok, some if you will call me on this, but as a fair number of nations who send forward dsd athletes are African, and so is she, that she'll sweep this under the carpet.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 20/03/2025 17:20

She hasn’t always endorsed the protection of women’s sport so I will reserve judgement. People say a lot of things in order to get elected, as we well know, so it’s wait and see for me. Great that it’s a woman though.

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2025 17:25

She sounds proper wet on the subject.

I'm kinda over the 'couldnt have foreseen' thing. Yes you could. It's a crap deflection.

How about 'we made an error of judgement'. You know the truth. And so long as they won't say that they are slippery as fuck and can't be trusted.

kiterunning · 20/03/2025 17:29

Press conference on Sky News now. I missed the start but hope someone brings up the issue of DSDs. Not holding my breath though.

Floisme · 20/03/2025 17:30

I can't see a Twitter post yet from Sharron Davies but she's reposted a number of people who are unimpressed.

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