@Datun said: And who was the one who said female refers to biological sex, but woman refers to gender?
Apart from the ridiculous result that now there is no longer a term for an adult human female, it's also going to be evident that the word woman is now in the purview of men.
Yes, that sprang out at me. The caller says "man" and "woman" are not biological words. So the word "woman" is a social construct and therefore anyone can claim it.
For those who didn't hear the programme, below is a transcript of Shelagh's conversation with that particular caller. It is clear (and sadly amusing) that he ties himself in knots with his own rules of when to use "man" and when to use "male", or "woman" and "female".
Alex from Bournemouth (AB): I believe that trans people are aware, the majority trans people I’ve spoken to and from people that I’ve spoken to in the community, trans people are aware that they can’t change their biological sex. That is currently not something we can do with our current science and our current evolution. They can change their gender because they’re social and cultural aspects. Er…
Shelagh Fogarty (SF): Well it’s entirely social isn’t it.
AB: Yeah, it’s social but, like, those social constructs can be built around cultures, so different cultures have different genders, even in modern day there are various nations that do have more than 2 genders, some that conform to non-binary genders, some that conform to multiple genders at the same time, so I don’t see the correlation between that and this data. I think the problem is societal pressure has put public bodies on the back foot of trying to negotiate, like, this whole if you’re a woman you’re a woman you can’t change that, which because it’s a social construct is just not true. It’s based on phenotypical traits that can be modified, that can be changed.
SF: Sorry, what’s not true?
AB: Er that, like, erm, a man can’t, sorry, a biological male can’t be a woman? Or a biological female can’t become a man.
SF: Biologically they can’t. Socially they can.
AB: No no no, because biologically, man and woman is not biological. It is social. So, talking about biological men isn’t a thing because they’re two separate entities. As we’ve agreed, man and woman can be social.
SF: Can I use male and female, alright well let’s do that for the purposes of this conversation.
AB: Yeah yeah, because as I said transgender people are aware… a transgender woman will understand if she is biologically male she will also go in for, like, prostate cancer screenings, like, she will go in for all these other things that she will need for her body.
SF: But Professor Sullivan found that they were missing out, some trans people were missing out on those things not because they, not because they are confused but because the organisation that should be offering them tests, for example, isn’t, because it has recorded them merely under the title of their gender, which if it’s their gender is female it is recorded as female when they are biologically male, then that puts the trans person at a disadvantage in the health… well, it does.
AB: Yeeeah, well my response to that would be then that the public bodies are doing it incorrect they are using female, er sorry, they are using woman as a gender which it wouldn’t be, female is also not a gender it’s a sex so that’s where the confusion comes from and that again is part of societal pressure pushing it on sort of like these anti-trans sort of movements.
SF: So what should they say? Because my understanding is that if you’re asked about your gender in an NHS list or police or whatever you say male or female.
AB: Well yeah, that’s what I’m saying, there’s a problem with the public bodies by saying male or female.
SF: What should they say?
AB: Er, your gender should be man or woman unless you’re a child in which case it should be boy or girl depending on what you identify as.
SF: OK, slow down, slooow down, slow down, slow down. If a police officer or a doctor or a nurse taking information from me says Shelagh what’s your biological sex I would say female. If they said what’s your gender I’d say, muh I suppose female. Because I don’t really think about my gender because I’m happy with my biological sex, if you see what I mean. I don’t need another description of myself. But if I said my biological sex is female but I identify as a transman then there are examples where they’re putting me down as male.
AB: Yeah so that’s what I’m saying, the public bodies are wrong in that regard. I believe like for birth certificates for example you can’t change your sex on there but you can change your gender which is part of gender affirming care in legal areas and social areas.
SF: Retrospectively.
AB: Yeah, so this is a problem with the public bodies, like, not sort of like separating the two, er…
SF: Well, that is precisely what the report is saying. It’s saying that the public bodies is wrongly conflating sex and gender and that is putting both transpeople at risk and women at risk. Biological females at risk, to … I don’t know what to call them after that conversation with Alex. Women, females, biological females, phenomes or whatever that word was, phenotypes, I don’t know any more. Oh dear me.