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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I was hounded out of publishing - I was persona non grata for publishing Material Girls

86 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/03/2025 01:42

In September, I will appear as the claimant at an employment tribunal, in which Hachette is the respondent. I resigned in April 2024 because I had found it impossible, for various reasons, to do my job.

Over the next few years, this kind of abuse became routine. I was called a terf, a transphobe, a bigot, a far-right conspiracist, a vicious bully, a racist; accused of having been radicalised online as though I were an 18-year-old incel, not a fiftysomething female book publisher; and told I was widely despised by my colleagues and everyone in the industry. These posts would copy in my employers and various staff networks at Hachette. They came from all sorts of people in and around publishing, some anonymous, some not, some who had themselves complained about being bullied online, and some with tens of thousands of followers. One of my most persistent critics was a self-styled publishing commentator who continued to be platformed by the industry at the London Book Fair and was appointed as a judge for the British Book Awards. She was in addition an enthusiastic advocate for a group of young people in publishing who set up a social media account, The Young Refuseniks, which they used to advertise their curation of a “blocklist” — crucially different from a blacklist, you see — which identified all the “transphobes” in the industry, so that people could be kept “safe” from us (because of course, I was on the list). After they realised that blacklists, sorry, blocklists, are considered somewhat problematic, the whole thing disappeared, but not before it had garnered a great deal of support from many in the business.

In May 2021, three days before the publication of Material Girls, the Bookseller published an “open letter” from a group of anonymous people in the industry who claimed that “transphobia” was rife in publishing. The three-page document was titled “The Paradox of Tolerance”: “If we are tolerant but ill-informed, tolerant with no limit and no moral compass, then the intolerant destroy inclusivity and persecute minorities. To maintain a tolerant society that moves with new understanding and broadens its language to include rather than exclude, we must be intolerant of prejudice.”

Start of a much longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/how-i-was-hounded-out-of-publishing/

How I was hounded out of publishing | Ursula Doyle | The Critic Magazine

“I am going to dissect every word of this toxic TERF-y trash fire and call out the sheer irresponsible cruelty of platforming a notorious bigot with a release like this. @Docstockk is a [sic] infamous…

https://thecritic.co.uk/how-i-was-hounded-out-of-publishing/

OP posts:
suladoyle · 09/03/2025 13:20

Thank you! I am sorry you can’t express your views freely - my hope is that my case will change that. Publishing is entirely captured, and one of the worst things is that I very much doubt that management actually believe a word of mantras like TWAW. It is pure expediency.

suladoyle · 09/03/2025 13:23

Hello 👋 and thank you. You are absolutely spot on there.

UtopiaPlanitia · 09/03/2025 14:38

RoyalCorgi · 09/03/2025 10:02

You do wonder how these people justify their bullying behaviour to themselves. Since when was hounding a good person out of their job an admirable way to behave? If you work in publishing, how is censoring ideas you don't like considered the right thing to do? These people are just nasty, malicious, cowardly bullies, and too stupid to realise that one day they might be on the other end of mob hate.

These managers are cowards, and feel shamed by the bravery of people like Ursula, so they justify their cowardly behaviour any way they can because they don’t want to feel ashamed and the only way for them to feel better about themselves again is to force the brave person to leave. It’s pathetic and childish to see grownups engaging in playground politics.

Have gardened and I am glad to see that Ursula’s crowdfund is growing.

SidewaysOtter · 09/03/2025 15:06

I’m so sorry this has happened to you, @suladoyle I’m flabbergasted that an industry whose central tenet is the exchange of ideas can be so closed minded.

I’ve done some gardening, I hope you win Flowers

washingsomuchwashing · 09/03/2025 15:49

I've been watching this unfold with horror, Ursula. I've always had so much respect for you (you were also particularly nice about one of my submissions), never more so than now. Will stick money in the pot and very much hope you'll win.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 09/03/2025 15:58

@suladoyle sending unmumsnetty hugs - you are so brave & we are with you 💐

SaltPorridge · 09/03/2025 17:52

One of the most important books to be published in recent years.
Breathtakingly shocking that so many people have attacked public discussion.

Yorkshirelass04 · 09/03/2025 19:28

Support this thread wholeheartedly. Can anyone explain what is meant by gardening and seeds so I can also join in? Thanks

PachacutisBadAuntie · 09/03/2025 19:38

Yorkshirelass04 · 09/03/2025 19:28

Support this thread wholeheartedly. Can anyone explain what is meant by gardening and seeds so I can also join in? Thanks

I don't think links to crowdfunders are allowed, so instead we search for the garden of 'Hounded out of my job in publishing by Ursula Doyle' and plant some veg of your choice.

Yorkshirelass04 · 09/03/2025 21:48

PachacutisBadAuntie · 09/03/2025 19:38

I don't think links to crowdfunders are allowed, so instead we search for the garden of 'Hounded out of my job in publishing by Ursula Doyle' and plant some veg of your choice.

Thank you will go and support.

Abhannmor · 10/03/2025 08:58

Did a bit of digging yesterday. Hope it results in a nice crop of blooms 💐 for Ursula. Is publishing even worse than film or theatre? Sounds pretty toxic.

graceinspace999 · 10/03/2025 09:28

suladoyle · 09/03/2025 11:37

Hi everyone, thank you so much for the supportive comments. They do help to alleviate my sense of isolation and anxiety. I am v grateful 🙏

I’m shocked to read about how you’ve been treated - they need to be forced to admit just how hypocritical their actions are.

I have a feeling that your opinions are (quietly) held by the majority of women and it’s sad that we’ve been disenfranchised through threats and bullying.

This must be so difficult for you but know that there is much support and gratitude for your courage and principles 🌺

WinterTrees · 10/03/2025 11:23

I found this interesting thread from 2022 on the Young Refuseniks (which sounds uncannily like something invented by Rik from the Young Ones.)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4560823-blocklist-of-transphobic-people-in-publishing?page=1

Thank you, Ursula, for your principled courage and dignity.

BellissimoGecko · 10/03/2025 11:39

Publishing is totally captured.

BellissimoGecko · 10/03/2025 11:42

suladoyle · 09/03/2025 12:04

They asked for anonymity, and the judge refused it at the case management hearing last August.

Good.

Welcome. Material Girls is a valuable, important book and I'm glad you had the balls to publish it.

I'm so sorry to hear about what gah happened to you since. I'm happy to support you and do some gardening.

BellissimoGecko · 10/03/2025 11:43

Is JK Rolwling involved in helping you, @suladoyle?

AndInTheEnd · 10/03/2025 11:51

Publishing is utterly in thrall to the erratic whims of the internet, which skews to a younger, constantly scrolling, eager-to-be-on-the-right-side-of-history-in-Bourton-on-the-Water audience. BookTok is a major source of influence, and therefore key driver of volume sales, while reviewers, particularly in the US, love to start wildfires of umbrage. For publishers, The Internet is basically like having a pet dragon: great when it's on your side, impossible to train or predict, and potentially catastrophic if it turns on you. And Gen Z/Alpha are commonly considered to understand it better than their Gen X managers who are increasingly nervous about which of their previously commonplace opinions might render them toast.

It's not unreasonable to suggest that older publishers' paranoia about 'not getting it' - or worse, being cancelled, French Revolution style, by their own assistants - gives junior staff like the Young Refuseniks an inflated sense of their own vital role in the moral health of the publishing house - until the end of year accounts are due...

BadSkiingMum · 10/03/2025 12:35

Goodness, what a horrible experience. I hope that Ursula has managed to rebuild her career elsewhere or find a niche where she feels safe enough to grow again.

I had the misfortune to be caught in the silent heart of an organisational purity spiral a few years' back. I won't say much more, but what I would not underestimate is:

a) the socially contagious effect of one person casting an aspersion of wrongdoing or even wrong-thinking, especially if it is around the volatile areas of gender, race, sexuality or religion*;
b) the fear factor, so well portrayed in The Crucible and 1984, whereby each person fears that if they don't denounce the problematic individual sufficiently fiercely or stridently, then they too are guilty by association;
c) it ultimately comes down to process and mechanisms. A crowd can whip up a mob, but the instigators ultimately cause the most harm by weaponising official processes such as complaints or grievances against the transgressing individual.

*For some reason, age, sex and disability don't seem to provoke such strong feelings...

FlowchartRequired · 10/03/2025 12:56

BellissimoGecko · 10/03/2025 11:43

Is JK Rolwling involved in helping you, @suladoyle?

I don't think Ursula should answer that.

RoyalCorgi · 10/03/2025 13:26

AndInTheEnd · 10/03/2025 11:51

Publishing is utterly in thrall to the erratic whims of the internet, which skews to a younger, constantly scrolling, eager-to-be-on-the-right-side-of-history-in-Bourton-on-the-Water audience. BookTok is a major source of influence, and therefore key driver of volume sales, while reviewers, particularly in the US, love to start wildfires of umbrage. For publishers, The Internet is basically like having a pet dragon: great when it's on your side, impossible to train or predict, and potentially catastrophic if it turns on you. And Gen Z/Alpha are commonly considered to understand it better than their Gen X managers who are increasingly nervous about which of their previously commonplace opinions might render them toast.

It's not unreasonable to suggest that older publishers' paranoia about 'not getting it' - or worse, being cancelled, French Revolution style, by their own assistants - gives junior staff like the Young Refuseniks an inflated sense of their own vital role in the moral health of the publishing house - until the end of year accounts are due...

Edited

I'm sure you're right, but it's a bit mad, isn't it? Not just because reputable publishing houses that have been round 100 years or more shouldn't be in thrall to the whims and idiocies of their junior staff, but also because the large majority of the book-buying public are older women. That's why Material Girls, Trans (the Helen Joyce book), The Women Who Wouldn't Wheesht etc sold so well. You're not just making yourself morally bankrupt, you're in danger of making yourself financially bankrupt too.

Britinme · 10/03/2025 15:55

What a lovely day for gardening. Seeds planted.

duc748 · 10/03/2025 16:33

WinterTrees · 10/03/2025 11:23

I found this interesting thread from 2022 on the Young Refuseniks (which sounds uncannily like something invented by Rik from the Young Ones.)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4560823-blocklist-of-transphobic-people-in-publishing?page=1

Thank you, Ursula, for your principled courage and dignity.

So much these days reminds me of Rik from The Young Ones. But it's no laughing matter really, is it?

Floofyboy2010 · 10/03/2025 22:49

fanOfBen · 09/03/2025 09:36

Gardened (again). Interesting to read that a lot of what's going on right now is bundle preparation, after hearing about how particular NC is about bundle preparation! (Now someone's going to ask where that was and I don't remember... an article aimed mostly at lawyers, I think, about the practicalities of preparing a good bundle? Google does find me this:

https://etclaims.co.uk/2008/09/sedleys-laws-of-documents/

with a comment by her!)

It was an episode of Daniel Barnett's employment law podcast!

suladoyle · 11/03/2025 08:18

Floofyboy2010 · 10/03/2025 22:49

It was an episode of Daniel Barnett's employment law podcast!

Naomi gave me Very Strict Instructions about the bundle, and obviously I followed them assiduously. NC has written a book for ET claimants, and despite its being more than ten years old, it is still very useful, if anyone is going through the same thing.

Floofyboy2010 · 11/03/2025 08:24

suladoyle · 11/03/2025 08:18

Naomi gave me Very Strict Instructions about the bundle, and obviously I followed them assiduously. NC has written a book for ET claimants, and despite its being more than ten years old, it is still very useful, if anyone is going through the same thing.

Good luck with your hearing, I will be following closely. You are in brilliant hands with NC.