Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Grunwald: Advertising: What Isn’t Working?

9 replies

RethinkingLife · 26/02/2025 22:23

Grunwald: Advertising: What Isn't Working?

Interesting discussion across a range of topics.

Has advertising lost touch with consumers – and what role have its 'people professionals' played? If a strongly left-leaning, middle class monoculture has evolved, is the industry in any position to preach about diversity? Doesn't anyone care about selling stuff anymore – and is it too late to turn this around?
In this episode Tanya takes a deep dive into what isn’t working in the UK’s advertising industry, in conversation with the fabulously frank copywriting legend Stever Harrison.

Why be so specific about one industry? Because – although there are universal themes, such as group think and a lack of moral courage – it’s become clear that every industry faces its own problems, when it comes to talent, leadership and culture. Who is attracted to that industry? How has it evolved? What makes it vulnerable to bad ideas – and what explains its failure to address problems which are glaringly obvious to outsiders?

Tanya's path crossed with Steve’s, so we thought we'd start with advertising. In this rich, varied and often-funny conversation, you’ll hear them ask:

HOW HAVE UNIVERSITY GRADUATES CHANGED THE INDUSTRY? Do they want to make great adverts – or do they want to save the world? If young people think capitalism is bad (or at least a bit naff), what do they think advertising is? Has the industry mis-sold itself to a generation of young talent?

IS THE AD INDUSTRY ‘WOKE-WASHING’ ITSELF? While championing on-screen race and gender diversity (think Jaguar and Bud Light), Steve says Adland has failed to address its own biases and monoculture – and is now staffed almost exclusively by a ‘middle class, left-leaning, metropolitan elite.’

IF ‘SOCIAL PURPOSE’ ADVERTISING WAS AN EVDIENCE-FREE FAD, WHY DID EVERYONE GO ALONG WITH IT FOR YEARS? This is a shocker. For over a decade, marketing giant Edelman pushed flimsy data claiming Gen Z cared more about progressive politics than product or price, Steve says. When FMCG giants Proctor & Gamble and Unilever lapped it up, every ad agency followed, as it suited their personal politics. Ads that sold nothing won awards, and the industry press was silent. Had these organisations had healthy, mixed cultures which encouraged challenge, would the business case for social purpose ads have been rejected much sooner? How much money was wasted by clients and agencies during this period, because their culture discouraged internal debate, and incentivised nodding along?

DID THESE BAD IDEAS BLEED INTO EMPLOYER BRANDING? Did employer branding agencies like Havas People and Thirty Three borrow Edelman’s iffy ideas about Gen Z’s priorities, and push brands towards positioning themselves as being ethical, socially responsible graduate employers – even if they weren’t particularly? (Does this explain the disillusionment many 20something staff are expressing now?)

WHY HAVEN’T WE SEEN MORE EMPLOYMENT TRIBUNALS? The fear factor is huge in advertising, says Steve, who likens challenging Adland’s holding companies to ‘playing poker against the richest gamblers at the table. And, even if you win, you’ll never work again…’

WHAT HAPPENED TO LEADERSHIP? Ad agency execs are well paid, and not stupid. But Steve says they are preoccupied with social status, and their relationship and clients has felt increasingly coercive as budgets have been redirected towards digital agencies delivering cheaper, quicker results. With these dynamics at play, will leaders admit their part in creating the industry’s current problems? Or will they just push on, hiring the same people and repeating the same mistakes that continue to leave the rest of us baffled about what has gone so wrong?

OP posts:
Myalternate · 26/02/2025 23:12

It’s passed my bedtime and I’m tired but just wanted to say the KFC ad ‘Believe in Chicken’ is a visual representation of how some people just follow the herd.

I watch very little TV but this advert made me rewind to watch it again 👍 So well done to whichever Agency created it.

TempestTost · 26/02/2025 23:35

Not all the way through this but it is so interesting.

It reminds me a lot of what has happened in journalism.

The left right thing is in a way misleading, what has really happened is that with Basically increasing social division according to class advertising, media, and other institutions are more controlled by the elite and reflects their interests and beliefs.

What really is interesting though is the way they have positioned themselves as the morally righteous people who care for others and believe in inclusivity. But it's a sham, they are reflecting the political best interests of the elite and are less inclusive than ever.

This is the whole political landscape it seems to me.

RethinkingLife · 27/02/2025 00:59

The whole way through, but particularly when Harrison gave the statistics about the demographics of who works in advertising, all I could think about was Goodwin’s epistemic class.

For much of the last half century, the new elite, whose families often descend from the professional and managerial classes, benefitted far more than others…
Shaped by their privileged family backgrounds, their educational qualifications, and their much greater ‘cultural capital’…the new elite hoovered up most of the gains from Britain’s embrace of hyper-globalisation and a political economy which was rebuilt around them, which both demanded and rewarded their skills.
They’ve benefitted culturally, too. After flooding into the creative, cultural, knowledge and public sector institutions, becoming a new “epistemic class” which creates, filters and determines what is or what is not acceptable or desirable within the national conversation, the new elite watched the prevailing culture be completely reshaped around their far more socially liberal values, tastes, political priorities, and interests.
Increasingly, when they’ve looked out at the institutions and what they create -the television programmes, films, adverts, books, museums, galleries, columns, and the national conversation more broadly- they’ve seen their worldview staring back at them while millions of others struggle to recognise their worldview at all.

https://www.mattgoodwin.org/p/rise-of-the-new-elite

OP posts:
Lovelyview · 27/02/2025 07:39

That's such an interesting discussion. It really explains the terrible decisions organisations are making. It's likely that businesses which have to make a profit will course correct much faster than institutions like local authorities, the bbc and the nhs. The comments on class were very thought-provoking too. Do you think the left-wing is lost completely or are there some sane ones remaining?

highame · 27/02/2025 08:54

Every so often, disrupters come along. The disrupter in chief arrives and we have our own. Their job in society is to bring everyone back to their senses. I hope I'm right and that in the fullness of time, we will find our society changed but more central. The hard left and the hard right will lose ground but the majority will gain. I hope I'm right

ArabellaScott · 27/02/2025 10:07

Thanks, OP. There is an argument that advertising is an excellent bellwether of culture, precisely because of the underlying need for brutal honesty about what people want, need, believe. It suggests ads are often more insightful artworks than art, because of that dynamic. Ads are focussed on realities, not ideals.

But seems this industry may also have been subjected to 'queer theory'. Which does what it says on the tin - destroys the existing order.

RethinkingLife · 27/02/2025 19:37

Grunwald has excellent and thoughtful podcasts. It’s astonishing she doesn’t have more coverage.

OP posts:
AnotherAngryAcademic · 27/02/2025 20:44

Myalternate · 26/02/2025 23:12

It’s passed my bedtime and I’m tired but just wanted to say the KFC ad ‘Believe in Chicken’ is a visual representation of how some people just follow the herd.

I watch very little TV but this advert made me rewind to watch it again 👍 So well done to whichever Agency created it.

This is brilliant!

Huckleberries · 27/02/2025 21:06

Thanks @RethinkingLife this looks really interesting. I only managed to start it before going to work but I will definitely finish it at the weekend. The part that I've already heard was really interesting. I didn't realise there was ever a period where people couldn't say to their posh dining group that they were in advertising.

@Myalternate that advert is fantastic!

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread