US threatens permanent visa bans on trans athletes based on sex markers

[NotNatacha]

Guardian link

This would apply to the 2028 Olympic Games in Los Angeles.

According to the post I saw on SM, the directive applies not just to athletes but all visa applications made by trans-identifying people and declare it material fraud to use a sex marker on applications which is different from the one on the person’s (original?) birth certificate.

Thread here.

Apologies if this has already been linked but my searching didn’t find it.

Would this be a total ban for any trans person wanting to apply for a visa?

No it just means that the visa document will reflect their biological sex.

True, I think, although the article says
“While signing the order, the president directed the homeland security secretary, Kristi Noem, to deny visas to “men attempting to fraudulently enter the United States while identifying themselves as women athletes” during the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles – which will take place under Trump’s watch.“

I have always wondered how this would play out in the real world. If a country didn't legally believe in sex changes/trans or Non-binary why should they accept another country's laws when those people want to visit/work/live in that first country? It's a clash of laws and basically the host country has to put their laws first, same as freedoms around alcohol, drugs, sex consent. The difficult part is down to legally recognisable paperwork being "tampered" with in one country that won't be accepted in another.

Cans meet worms.

Misleading title.

So trans identifying athletes are welcome as long as their biological sex is listed correctly and they compete in that same category?

Not really banning all trans people visiting, is it?

No, as long as ‘the correct sex marker’ ( = sex recorded at birth) is on the visa application.

Are you able to read this thread?

Oh sorry I thought it was twitter which I can't read as I don't have an account there but I will read this one.

yeah its not a ban. If you are female and have a female passport, you're all good.

But some people's passport doesn't match their birth sex. Are those people banned from visiting America, despite changing their passport via legal means in their own country?

But some people's passport doesn't match their birth sex.

A rather unfortunate error, which they should get corrected to prevent difficulties.

(Hopefully there's no bureaucratic madness making that difficult...)

So, if a person who is male with a transgender identity is entering the country to compete as a male athlete in a male event, then as long as they have been honest about their sex category, they are not banned.

Well, its fraud, so I bloody hope so.

I left Twitter some time ago 😀

I think you can still read posts there without an account, should you want to, but not replies.

If a person wishes to enter a country, there is no onus on that country to accept a person who they believe is presenting a passport where there is a factual inconsistency.

And the USA has been active in helping their own passport holders to have passports that reflect their sex so that those passport holders should not have an issue on re-entry to the USA.

When someone chooses to change their passport to reflect their philosophical belief and not the material reality of their body's sex category, I think that it is becoming very clear that this is not an act with no impact on others. And that it has now become a very serious matter to consider, and to understand that just because it was allowed at some point, that a government can revoke that privilege at any time.

It does make it precarious, but it always was and I don't believe that the groups who pushed for these changes really considered what would happen to all their members if a government changed their mind.

Sadly, some vulnerable people fully believed that this was a 'right' and not a privilege. Hence why mantras such as 'trans rights are human rights' is false. How many discussions have we had on these threads about what constitutes a 'right' and what constitutes a 'privilege'? What has happened is for those vulnerable people, many of those who told them that having this sex marker change was a 'right' were giving them misinformation. And any person who supported telling these vulnerable people that this was a 'right' added their voice.

Why should society support the changing significant facts on identification based on philosophical belief?

Some people may have been led into a false sense of security that they can rely not only on members of the public but also upon officialdom to participate in their role play, and hence that it was safe to put role play fictions into official documents.

This was always going to be a precarious situation if they decided to go down this route - in passports most of all, where you're going to be subject to the rules of another country.

I do get the sense that many seem to regard their passports and other official documents as primarily role play props. Like that "I need a non-binary passport" dude who just lost.

Are you able to read this thread?

Best to spell links out rather than hide them, given recent problems with illegal material.

Oh the lack of logical thinking on that thread makes my head hurt!

The chickens are coming home to roost now. After the number this toxic ideology has for too long got away with pulling on women and children, I can't pretend the remotest degree of concern now. My field of fucks is barren. #NoDebate is what they wanted; let them have it.

Also, if this affects the forthcoming Olympics then women will once again receive a fair playing field in their own sporting categories. No one is 'banned': the only difference is that the lie that humans can change sex is no longer being entertained. Anyone can compete fairly in their accurate categorisation. This sets a long-overdue injustice finally to rights, and may well have an impact on sporting competitions of the future.

Not sorry.

"I do get the sense that many seem to regard their passports and other official documents as primarily role play props."

yes.

And that they think that they should have control over their identification documents being issued by their government that should have always just stated the immutable factual information attached to a name. Someone has told a group of people that they should have control over how governments treat factual information.

If you’re travelling to a foreign country then you accept and follow their laws- period. If you don’t accept or want to follow a law then you shouldn’t travel there.

In this case I agree with the rule that passports should show biological sex and not gender and if a trans person does not agree then they have a right to boycott the Olympics. How many athletes does this affect anyway?

'Trans athletes' - but not the likes of Imane Khelif who is officially female and has that on their passport, which was enough for the Olympics to allow IK to take part in the women's boxing tournament.

If the Olympics don't get their act together and introduce a proper test, this move by the US wouldn't stop IK etc. participating in the women's sports at the next Olympics..

I'm happy to hear this although, as PP says, they need to decide what they're going to do about people with DSDs as well.

I thought it was polite and tidier to use the MN way of giving links, but I’ll know for the future.

Here’s what I hope is a clearer link.

https://bsky.app/profile/erininthemorning.com/post/3lizmxgz2vk2a