Kathleen Stock - Gender cannot be a get-out-of-jail card for violent men

[Username65]

A typically great article by Kathleen which covers a few matters/ cases that have been discussed here, so I’ve put on a separate thread.

“we are talking about an ineffable but highly potent substance, gender identity, known to paralyse even high-functioning minds upon first contact. “🤣

Gender cannot be a get-out-of-jail card for violent men

www.thetimes.com/article/aee0d88a-6f10-4f2c-b4e2-e380f1e2d9eb?shareToken=77c7c50c3bdee631df9fe776669f4191

Thanks so much for share. Such a great piece; so clear. I particularly liked her summary because she's so right, we do know this stuff, and we've known it for a long time. It's refreshing to see an academic who is happy to acknowledge we have common sense when it comes to safeguarding and we shouldn't be afraid to use it, especially when it IS backed up by evidence. As opposed to so many who want to try to convince ordinary people they couldn't possibly understand basic stuff because they haven't studied it at university level.

Hear hear. Kathleen.

Stonewall created the trans umbrella and have welcomed all comers alike. Some of them are predators, and it is time we started asking whether a higher percentage of trans identified men are predators than the general male population. (MN I am using TiM here to make it clear some of these men are not genuine in their claims to be trans). There have been so many cases recently of men claiming trans identities being found guilty of horrific crimes.

As a mother my number one job is to keep my children safe. The time is coming soon when I will have to teach them that men are one of the biggest dangers they will face, and that almost every woman they will ever meet will have had at least one really bad experience at the hands of a man.

This is why teaching our daughters that TWAW, and the most vulnerable and that they must be kind is so fucking dangerous. We are lining them up like lambs to the slaughter.

Some of them are predators, and it is time we started asking whether a higher percentage of trans identified men are predators than the general male population. (MN I am using TiM here to make it clear some of these men are not genuine in their claims to be trans). There have been so many cases recently of men claiming trans identities being found guilty of horrific crimes.

I've seen statistics shared on here that show the percentage of trans identifying prisoners convicted of violent/sexual crime is way higher than that of the general prison population.

"Still, there remains a general reluctance in polite society to spell out a point that grows more obvious with every news story about a “woman” arrested for paedophilia, voyeurism or sex attacks. So I’ll say it. We need to responsibly face the fact that certain men are attracted to identifying as women because they are already psychologically unstable; and the stories about how any subsequent predatory behaviour or aggression comes only from “societal transphobia” or “repressing who I really was” is a load of, well, balls".
🙌👸

Spot on 👏 well said KS 😃

It's in the article: 70% vs 19%.

Good to see the quiet bits about all this being spelled out in the MSM.

Those stats don't quite answer the question of whether trans identified men are a greater risk to women than the general male population as a whole. It only compares men with convictions. It hints that the gen pop of TW may be at a greater risk of committing violent offences, but does not answer it conclusively. It could be that many claims a trans identity after the fact.

For that to be done we would need to know the % of the male population claiming a trans identity. (I think the last census made a total balls up of that question.) And then look at the conviction rates for this group and compare with the conviction rates for men who are not claiming a trans identity.

This is the stuff that should have been asked and answered before there was any move to have TW in our spaces. But as we now see, women don't really matter. So in they came.

It is. Still frustratingly tentative though. Despite it becoming more and more obvious.

More discussion of what constitutes a paraphilia would be good. How they cluster and how the public can participate unwittingly, etc. Breezily handing women only spaces over to these men will suddenly seem a lot less about rights, and a lot more about men.

We really need to ditch this idea of 'genuine' trans (especially given that the whole thing is about pretending to be something that you're not to begin with). Making that distinction is basically saying that some men claim trans identities in order to commit sex offences and how you tell the real from the fake man pretending to be a woman is a criminal record.

But we cannot turn a blind eye to the possibility that men who claim trans identities are also more likely to commit sex offences.

Even Stonewall itself dithers about who is "genuinely trans".

Up until 24th June last year Stonewall had crossdressers in its list of transgender categories. As from that date, they are not included.

Were genuinely trans then but aren't now? Never were genuinely trans? I'd love to know.

That 70% total is really shocking. Over the last 2 years on MN, a graph and explainer has been posted frequently, showing that 48% of trans, versus 18% of the genera prison population are there for offences of a sexual and / or violent nature against women and children.

Are the ones making up the difference of more general violence?

Great article, as you’d expect from an exceptionally clear thinker and writer.

Archive version https://archive.is/Yqb57

KS says it’s 70% of convicted trans prisoners have crimes involving sex or violence when comparable figure for general male prison population is @ 20%.

She is brilliant. Such a clear writer and so good to see this being published in a broadsheet.

That data's stark isn't it? The chilling impact of #nodebate and the refusal to allow for research has likely set society back by a number of years in terms of being able to assess the level of risk these men present to women and children.

Yes, a good question. What's the difference between a cross dresser and a transwoman? Can a cross dresser become a transwoman? Like Eddie Izzard, for example? How would anyone know? Let me guess, is it 'Because they say so'?

Any man who wants to violate women's boundaries is a bad man, it doesn't matter the reason.

Awareness has been helped by greater statistical clarity about reality: for instance, that, according to recent figures, 70 per cent of trans-identified prisoners are incarcerated for sexual assault or violent crime, compared with about 19 per cent of the male prison population generally.

from Stock’s article.

Probably, but the last stat I saw was that just under half of all trans identified convicts are in prison for sexual crimes. That’s a huge difference compared to the male prison population as a whole.

I know people don't like to make distinctions and don't like this "genuine" vs "non-geniune", but it is the case with criminals.

We don't have statistics for men who claim a trans identity AFTER being charged with a crime. There have always been cases of men with a variety of fetishes (including cross-dressing) committing crime, but with recent cases it is definitely a case of men assuming trans status just before the court case.

A simple solution would be to prevent men from changing their identity (name/ documented sex etc) after being charged and throughout the whole legal process.

Once that is done it is easier to look at the real numbers and percentages.

I don't really think drawing a distinction between genuine and non genuine trans identities is helpful. Among those who are genuine - by which I mean truly believe they have a trans identity, we have:

• gender non conforming people who believe in the concept of gender identity
• autistic people who have fixed ideas about gendered rules and norms
• people whose trauma leads them to want to reject their sexed bodies
• people with a paraphilia
• people with personality disorders

I think rather than seeking to categorise by 'vulnerable v not vulnerable', 'harmless v harmful', 'genuine v not genuine', we should recognise that. (I) access to SSS need to be determined by natal sex (ii) there needs to be different treatment pathways for different people with trans identities according to the underlying cause.

Drawing the distinction is particularly helpful when you have men adopting a trans identity before a court case so that the crime and reporting of the crime is linked to a name and identity that will be dropped as soon as they are released from prison. There was a recent case of a "trans woman" turning up to court, unshaved, men's clothing, men's haircut etc, but with a pink hairband and a female name!

The genuine trans criminals are likely to continue with that identity after release from prison so that it becomes easier to investigate their background.

Basically I don't want a system where criminals are gaming it to avoid the (rightful) negative consequences of being a convicted criminal.

Basically I don't want a system where criminals are gaming it to avoid the (rightful) negative consequences of being a convicted criminal.

The Sentencing Guidelines should be amended to say that being trans in and of itself is not something which allows for any mitigation in relation to sentencing. If there is a vulnerability there which could allow for mitigation, separate to identifying as trans, then that's different, but should be supported with expert evidence. IMO, anyway.

Yes - along with the bench book guidelines. I know they're had to roll back on some of the trans extremist aspects in an embarrassed fashion having allowed the self interested to write them for their own ends. But there's still some room to go in terms of stopping all the male paedophiles and sex offenders demanding to be called she in court.