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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to save the NHS - (NHS Fife & pronouns)

39 replies

akkakk · 18/02/2025 10:16

A slightly different look at the current case against NHS Fife / Dr Upton by Sandie Peggie.

In a report in The Telegraph it says:
The NHS allowed a transgender doctor to use female changing rooms on the advice of an equalities officer rather than lawyers, it has emerged.

An employment tribunal heard that NHS managers deferred to Isla Bumba, equality and human rights lead at NHS Fife, after nurse Sandie Peggie said she was uncomfortable sharing female facilities with Dr Beth Upton, who was born male but identifies as a woman.

Apparently Isla Bumba was hired to the senior role after graduating in 2020 and then working for two years as a Covid contact tracer.

It then goes on to say:
Ms Bumba said her role was as a “support aid” to the NHS and dealt with issues such as “staff [who] are not sure what the correct pronouns for someone are”.

She worked for NHS Grampian for two years as a Covid contact tracer before landing the NHS Fife role, which sees her paid between £48,788 and £56,747 per year.

So - my radical idea...
Print pieces of A4 to go around the trust buildings which say:
If born a boy = man = he / his
If born a girl = woman = she / hers

remove Ms Bumba's role and instantly save £50,000 p/a
there are 215 NHS trusts - each of which no doubt has a Ms Bumba
should save nearly £11million p/a - soon it will add up to real money!

OP posts:
CocoapuffPuff · 18/02/2025 12:39

I feel slightly sorry for Isla Bumba. Yes, she applied for the role, but she should never have been given it. We're told on the one hand that people under age 25 aren't fully developed so shouldn't face the full adult consequences for rape and other violent crimes, as they're impulsive and erratic. Yet they handed this mere child the huge responsibility that they did, without any external controls mitigating her age related impulsive and erratic behaviour.
Was she set up? Did nobody limit her actions? Did they all just sit back and watch an untrained and inexperienced bairn slap her keyboard and squeal "look at me, I werkin', I werkin', lookat meeeee" as she burned the entire place down?

Sortumn · 18/02/2025 12:47

The thing is this seems to have been seen as a fluffy job. Pronouns and sorting out translators for people. Lovely.

We could have really done with someone with an overview when my friend who is a wheelchair user was put on a ward where she was expected to take bowel preparation medication and no access to any accessible toilet. Anyone on the outside can see how ludicrous this is but on the inside of the hospital system no one seemed to have the ability to consider her needs let alone find a common sense solution.
This must be happening up and down the country.
I'm just about to read a report on maternity care, or lack of and autism.

We do need purely who aren't so snowed down with the day to day running that they can see when things can be made better and strep in when individuals are being failed. This needs someone with a lot more life experience and a great of real world problems thatt IB will have.

Merrymouse · 18/02/2025 12:57

Sortumn · 18/02/2025 12:47

The thing is this seems to have been seen as a fluffy job. Pronouns and sorting out translators for people. Lovely.

We could have really done with someone with an overview when my friend who is a wheelchair user was put on a ward where she was expected to take bowel preparation medication and no access to any accessible toilet. Anyone on the outside can see how ludicrous this is but on the inside of the hospital system no one seemed to have the ability to consider her needs let alone find a common sense solution.
This must be happening up and down the country.
I'm just about to read a report on maternity care, or lack of and autism.

We do need purely who aren't so snowed down with the day to day running that they can see when things can be made better and strep in when individuals are being failed. This needs someone with a lot more life experience and a great of real world problems thatt IB will have.

Edited

And somebody who also had enough status to stand up to senior staff and the board.

However, that is also the kind of person I would imagine representing a union - and that hasn't gone very well.

akkakk · 18/02/2025 13:02

Merrymouse · 18/02/2025 12:57

And somebody who also had enough status to stand up to senior staff and the board.

However, that is also the kind of person I would imagine representing a union - and that hasn't gone very well.

Those people are also found in copious quantities across the country - running businesses, they are mostly too sensible to go anywhere near working for the NHS.

I am a management consultant / have set up / run / advised on 100s of businesses around the world - my wife is a surgeon, I know too much about the NHS to ever work there...

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 18/02/2025 13:06

Funnily enough, there is a vacancy on the NHS Fife board.

For a non-executive whistleblowing champion.

https://www.nhsfife.org/about-us/nhs-fife-board/team-members/nhs-fife-board/vacancy-non-executive-whistleblowing-champion/

ArabellaScott · 18/02/2025 13:08

IB is very young, and agree with others, she's been put into a job she doesn't seem qualified to do.

Where does responsibility lie?

With the board?

With the Scottish Government - the Cab Sec for Health?

That would be Neil Gray.

https://www.gov.scot/about/who-runs-government/cabinet-and-ministers/cabinet-secretary-for-health-and-social-care/

Paddleboardsandironingboards · 18/02/2025 13:14

I think there's no need to turn this into an individual witch hunt. The NHS is institutionally captured, those at board level in every trust either know what's going on, or bloody well should. The responsibility is theirs to address this.

Carriemac · 18/02/2025 13:22

The intranet to my Trusts EDI trans inclusive policy has mysteriously disappeared ...
Are the NHS waking up ?

CocoapuffPuff · 18/02/2025 13:29

I suspect this poor lass will be left to face the music without support from higher up the food chain. She's advised them badly, but in line with how and what she's been taught. It's rotten all the way through, isn't it? So Sandie Peggie, Kate Searle (I think that's her name) and whoever EB is, as well as Isla Bumba have all been dropped in as sacrificial lambs. Spot the connection between all four of them? Yep - they're female. All thrown onto the blaze by NHS Fife for a man.

How on earth can we tell which is the man and which are the women....hmmmmmm

edited - wrong surname for IB!

Greenfencebrowntree · 18/02/2025 13:31

CocoapuffPuff · 18/02/2025 13:29

I suspect this poor lass will be left to face the music without support from higher up the food chain. She's advised them badly, but in line with how and what she's been taught. It's rotten all the way through, isn't it? So Sandie Peggie, Kate Searle (I think that's her name) and whoever EB is, as well as Isla Bumba have all been dropped in as sacrificial lambs. Spot the connection between all four of them? Yep - they're female. All thrown onto the blaze by NHS Fife for a man.

How on earth can we tell which is the man and which are the women....hmmmmmm

edited - wrong surname for IB!

Edited

She even consulted the Terence Higgins Trust on the policy... Probably speaking to her own equivalent there, another personable young woman wanting to be nice and tick all the boxes she's been taught to tick.

CarefulN0w · 18/02/2025 13:45

@Merrymouse for me the exec responsibility should sit with a clinician, but it would be a practical solution for HR to do a lot of the doing, because of the need for training as well as staff functions.

I would be interested to hear of other solutions though. The main thing if meaningful improvements are to be achieved for all PC, is not to hive EDI off into its own department but to properly embed it across all appropriate functions.

To take safeguarding policies as an example, the exec lead needs to be responsible for ensuring that the policy content reflects the stated aims of the policy and is in line with actual, and not imagined, legislation. This individual would also be responsible for making sure that safeguarding considers the needs of patients and visitors with all protected characteristics equally.

akkakk · 18/02/2025 13:48

Paddleboardsandironingboards · 18/02/2025 13:14

I think there's no need to turn this into an individual witch hunt. The NHS is institutionally captured, those at board level in every trust either know what's going on, or bloody well should. The responsibility is theirs to address this.

Agree - no need for a witch hunt, but that wasn't the purpose of this thread.
My slightly tongue-in-cheek original post was commenting on a role (just happens to be filled by IB) where she quotes her purpose including helping others such as when they are unsure about pronouns...

now as pronouns are one of the simplest parts of English grammar, my suggestion was to write it out on a piece of A4 and save the need for a £50k+ p/a job

The absurdity of the NHS is not just that people are hounding nurses like this, but that anyone would ever consider employing someone in a role where a part of the job is to help people understand pronouns...

If born a boy = man = he / his
If born a girl = woman = she / hers

It really is no more complex than that - it does not need someone being paid £50k+ p/a to help people understand it. If anyone believes / claims anything else then the adults in the room need to say to them...

now now dear - we all know that there are only boys and girls and you are what you were born, so your pronoun is...

and then get on with their job of running the NHS to help people who are sick.

OP posts:
RethinkingLife · 18/02/2025 14:28

As PPs indicate, as the minutes of various meetings show, IB had a key role in writing policy. Amongst her other roles, she's also the Lead for Equalities and Human Rights for Fife. Plus a co-chair of relevant committees.

ANameChangePresents · 18/02/2025 15:00

Beowulfa · 18/02/2025 12:22

I feel it's unfair to personally criticise IB. She just applied for a job. The job's salary, remit and status is on the shitshow circus that is NHS Fife.

I'd like to think this could be an opportunity to look at what EDI roles COULD do if those in them were reminded that there are nine (9) protected characteristics under the 2010 EA, and that some of them are particularly pertinent in healthcare (thinking of the national scandal that is the maternity stats for black mothers).

No. Sorry. This shit show is a result of thousands of individuals making thousands of internally consistent decisions against the interests of the female sex class. Damn them to Hell and back. Save the infantilisation for infants. We all have the power to say 'no'.

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