Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
BonfireLady · 14/02/2025 11:05

What a great article 👏👏👏👏👏

I don't want to be a party pooper, but is this bit correct?

"In law sex cannot be changed so Dr Upton's sex remains that of a man."

Do we have clarity that sex cannot be changed in law? I thought we needed the outcome from the FWS case to determine whether a GRC changes someone's sex in relation to the Equality Act. Obviously without one we already know that Dr Upton's sex remains that of man, but what I don't believe we yet know is whether a GRC would change someone's sex in law (i.e. under the EA).

Ps obviously I know it's not possible to change sex biologically, in actual reality, but the law and reality aren't necessarily on the same page here.

Chersfrozenface · 14/02/2025 11:28

Exactly.

We have the infamous Section 9, Subsection 1 of the GRA 2004, which says:
"(1)Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).'

Then Explanatory Note 27 to the Act says about Section 9:
Subsection (1) states the fundamental proposition that once a full gender recognition certificate is issued to an applicant, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender, so that an applicant who was born a male would, in law, become a woman for all purposes. She would, for example, be entitled to protection as a woman under the Sex Discrimination Act 1975;..."

The law is a mess.

ArabellaScott · 16/02/2025 14:57

That's the Express reported to Police Scotland.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scottish-express-reported-police-referring-34687715

'On X, formerly Twitter, the SEEN Police Official Open Public Network – a collective account set up to "challenge hate" and said to be a "malign impersonator" of Sex Equality and Equity Network – said it had reported the Scottish Daily Express to Police Scotland.

It said: "We have submitted a second report to Police Scotland of targeted harassment of Dr Beth Upton by the Scottish Daily Express editor, Ben Borland. This links to our first report, which Police Scotland are currently REFUSING to deal with. In this new incident, Borland explains..
"..his reasons for intentional and gratuitous misgendering and deadnaming, are "simply stating a fact" and other well-worn 'gender critical' tropes. Yet, he is fully aware he is causing harassment and distress This is going to end badly for @PoliceScotland if they avoid dealing
"..with this. They are already in breach of the Equality Act and Public Sector Equality Duty. We are ready to apply for judicial review if this continues any longer. We will not allow Police Scotland to go on excluding the trans section of the public from the protection of..
"..a police service - which is effectively what they are doing, and have been doing since their infamous cowardice with JK Rowling. They are fobbing us off and know they are wrong. FAFO Police Scotland. FAFO."

😶

OP posts:
AnSolas · 16/02/2025 15:21

This links to our first report, which Police Scotland are currently REFUSING to deal with

Hummm... asking people randoms on the internet to arrest kidnap women in a Scottish Court room may not be a good look a reliable complainant 🙄

ArabellaScott · 16/02/2025 15:44

Oh, let's not discourage, please! I would LOVE to see the JR happen.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/02/2025 16:52

ArabellaScott · 16/02/2025 15:44

Oh, let's not discourage, please! I would LOVE to see the JR happen.

Absolutely. The more coverage these batshit people get, the more the population understands the dangers they all pose.

BiologicalRobot · 16/02/2025 17:19

My new thought process (that is probably very very wrong, but I'm still struggling with all of this).

So a GRC is to change gender but not sex which means that at the very least BU is still a man sex with woman gender, otherwise previously known as an effeminate man. And there's absolutely nothing wrong in that, so who has decided that men can't be effeminate in our society any more? Because I used to see lots of effeminate or camp men in my youth who knew they were men/male and weren't interested in boobs or red lipstick, so where have those guys disappeared to, or are they still around but I don't see them?

EDIT - Apologies for above as this is probably not the right thread.

ArabellaScott · 16/02/2025 17:22

Well, it's quite complex, Biological.

You are quite correct in your understanding, but whether the law agrees is another matter.

Those supportive of 'gender' over sex claim that it overrides sex. And For Women Scotland had to take the Scottish gov to the Supreme Court to find out whether it's possible to legally change sex, or just 'gender'.

We await the result.

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2024-0042

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 16/02/2025 17:25

Anyway, the X account currently threatening the Express is run by Lynsay Watson.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20231104024441/www.hrgrapevine.com/content/article/2023-11-01-trans-employee-sacked-after-branding-free-speech-campaigner-nazi-woman-beater" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20231104024441/www.hrgrapevine.com/content/article/2023-11-01-trans-employee-sacked-after-branding-free-speech-campaigner-nazi-woman-beater

'Watson reportedly set up four different accounts with fake identities "in an attempt to evade identification and in doing so she provided false information” about herself.
Watson said her messages were her acting on behalf of the LGBTQ <a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20231104024441/www.hrgrapevine.com/hr-glossary/community" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">community, and that the reason she was messaging anonymously was to gather evidence about whether there were unknown officers also a part of Fair Cop.
One of the accounts she created was a fake Home Office advisor on policing and transgender issues who had a masters in legal studies, while from another account she claimed to be a retired officer from a different force.
A solicitor on the case, Liz Briggs, called Watson’s messages “derogatory and abusive” and that she could have expressed her perspective in a different way.
Watson admitted to gross conduct and breaching standards of professional behaviour, but denied breaching standards relating to honesty and integrity. She was subsequently sacked from her role.'

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 16/02/2025 17:42

ArabellaScott · 16/02/2025 15:44

Oh, let's not discourage, please! I would LOVE to see the JR happen.

Me too!

ArabellaScott · 06/03/2025 21:11

Looks like an interesting ruling.

Unfortunately, ipso website is down and I can't access the ruling ....

'An important victory for the Telegraph in how the transgender debate can be reported in sport. On the back of our reporting, this IPSO ruling today establishes that the term ‘biological male’ is ‘genuinely relevant’ to a discussion of these issues'

https://x.com/oliverbrown_tel/status/1897685966669639856

https://x.com/oliverbrown_tel/status/1897685966669639856

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 06/03/2025 21:13

'Press regulator IPSO has said The Daily Telegraph was fine to describe a trans woman as a "biological male" in a story about a women's football match being cancelled because the reference was "genuinely relevant" and not "belittling or demeaning"'

(Press Gazette)

https://x.com/pressgazette/status/1897692968825286883

https://x.com/pressgazette/status/1897692968825286883

OP posts:
CarefulN0w · 06/03/2025 21:29

Thanks for sharing. Step by step, progress is being made, isn't it?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/03/2025 21:30

That's very good news. Oliver Brown's the Telegraph's Chief Sports Reporter. He openly challenged the IOC chiefs at an Olympic press conference about the male boxers and has championed getting men out of women's sport for some time now.

Good to see IPSO finding the courage to stand up to the trans zealots as well.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/03/2025 06:41

Article in the Telegraph by OB:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/03/07/biological-male-vindication-sex-matters-transphobic/

Archive link: https://archive.ph/5BGEq

RaspberryScrubs · 07/03/2025 06:49

Thank you MrsO.

ArabellaScott · 07/03/2025 07:03

Great article!

'Now journalists should no longer feel cowed into toeing the activists’ line. It is critical that all reporters seeking to report the science are not intimidated into falsifying reality or into fooling their readership.'

OP posts:
PriOn1 · 07/03/2025 07:15

From the Telegraph article:

“the International Olympic Committee’s former medical director Dr Richard Budgett infamously declaring in 2021: “Everybody accepts that trans women are women.” Au contraire, Dr Budgett. In 2025, the conclusion of the UK press regulator flies in the face of that ludicrous pronouncement, supporting a report that trans women are in fact biological males

I have temporarily quit Twitter, but there has been a resurgence in recent days, of transactivists insisting that woman is gender and female is sex.

I hope that the newspapers, now they have begun this journey, will begin to kick against all use of women’s language for men. It’s great that papers have been pushed to change woman to transwoman. Now is the time for them to consider calling them what they are, in plain English: men who claim they are women or cross dressing men.

BeyondHumanKenDoll · 07/03/2025 12:52

Au contraire, Dr Budget.

This line made me smile as I read it in the voice of Hercule Poiret.

Also this is absolutely fantastic news, well done to the Telegraph for defending the right to correctly refer to people's sex. Now please can IPSO extend their thinking and concede that sex is not just 'genuinely relevant' in the sporting category. It also matters when reporting about crime and court proceedings - even when court proceedings coerce the use of wrong-sex pronouns. Only then will I believe that IPSO is not completely partisan to the self-ID lobby.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page