Annulling GRCs

[Aquamarinescarf]

There's a lot of support for repealing the GRA, but I know senior legal people think that repealing a law can take many, many years and an awful lot of work.

So how about annulling GRCs and refusing to issue any more? There are innumerable examples of people swearing to live as the opposite sex for the rest of their lives and then going on to do something that only someone of their own sex can do — like Freddy McConnell, who obtained a GRC that certified her as male, then came off testosterone to have a baby within a year or so of obtaining her GRC. Personally, I know a man who has a GRC that says he's female, but having switched jobs and fallen out of love with Pride and all things trans, is back living as a bloke again.

There are no sanctions, apparently, when people do this. And if Dr Upton had a GRC it would, I understand from people who can get their heads around the interaction of the EA2010 and the GRA, have made it more difficult for Naomi Cunningham to skewer him on the stand because, officially, he would be a woman and have F for female on his passport.

Is it possible/ are there any precedents for government saying that a law or act isn't working as intended and therefore suspending its application and annulling previous cases? Does more legislation need to be passed in order to suspend it?

I think that would be difficult because getting a GRC results in amended birth registry entries and the issuing of new birth certificates. I don’t know if there is a central registry of GRCs that have been issued or a way to track down those changed entries. But even if you could, birth certificates with the trans sex that people have bought for themselves (or others) couldn’t be traced and would still be out there.

Passports etc. can be changed without a GRC, but not the birth registry. I think simply annulling GRCs could be pretty messy.

I'm astonished that a passport can be changed without a GRC. Surely that needs to stop now, if only because of terrorism.

"I don’t know if there is a central registry of GRCs that have been issued or a way to track down those changed entries."

There is a central Register for England and Wales.

GRA 2004 Explanatory Notes

Section 10: Registration

31.Paragraph 2 ofSchedule 3 requires the Registrar General for England and Wales to create a Gender Recognition Register (“GRR”). This Register will not be open to public inspection or search.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/notes/division/4/10

There will be similar Registers for Scotland and for Northern Ireland.

"birth certificates with the trans sex that people have bought for themselves (or others) couldn’t be traced and would still be out there."

Up to Sept 2024 approximately 9,500 GRCs had been issued for England and Wales.

Not all of those people will still be alive so say approx 9,000.

If there were to be a system to revoke "GRC falsified" birth certificates that is a very small number of people to identify. All of them will have an NHS Number and a National Insurance Number; some will be in the DBS system; some will have or will acquire criminal records; some will apply for or renew passports or driving licences.

Given well-founded concerns about criminals who have GRCs and the safeguarding issues around DBS checks, perhaps it would be sensible to utilise those data systems in order to revoke GRCs, require return of falsified birth certificates and issue copies of the originals?

Refs:
Gender Recognition Certificate: applications and outcomes
Sept 2024
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/tribunals-statistics-quarterly-july-to-september-2024

Updating the approved countries list for gender recognition
7 Feb 2024
https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2024/02/07/updating-the-approved-countries-list-for-gender-recognition/

A registry should make it simple to track down the changed registry entries. But it isn’t so great for requiring the return of the birth certificates as they don't have to be held by the person whose birth they record. Anyone can apply for any brith certificate and they can be handed on to anyone. While most will be held by the person they are about, it’s not something you could legally rely on in order to force their return. Also, it isn’t just the holder that an annulment would affect - if you reverse all the birth certificates of GRC holders, then you mess up the trail for their children’s identities, their marriages, etc.

I suspect it’s the question of what happens to current GRCs that would make repealing the GRA a messy and time consuming endeavour. An amendment to take out the bit about treating GRC holders as their acquired legal sex in all circumstances and a halt on issuing new certificates would stop most of the harm without getting into the more difficult issue of unilaterally changing birth certificates people have already relied on for other things.

Once you start thinking about it, yes, I can see it could get very messy to try and rescind existing GRCs.

It also occurs to me how ruddy dodgy being able to swap your sex and basically create a new identity is. Surely it makes fraud very easy? I mean, I'm sure I could persuade an official that I'm living as a man. I live in trousers, drive a van, wear unisex clothing already. I could let my chin hair grow, cut my hair short and honestly say I'm living as a man. New name, new bank account, new passport and I could hide assets from the taxman and no one else need ever know that I was officially Pluvius, while still the Pluvia they've known for years.

Discussion here about a "grandfather" clause.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5275327-5275327-sandie-peggies-tribunal-and-a-prediction-from-2018

Also, it isn’t just the holder that an annulment would affect - if you reverse all the birth certificates of GRC holders, then you mess up the trail for their children’s identities, their marriages, etc.

The same could be said when issuing the GRA birth certificate.

There must be means to open the register and legally establishing actual sex because holding a GRC does not change the holders rights to hereditary titles.

The government has stated that sex and gender are different, and they are committed to single sex services. The onus is on government to show how they can ensure that these services can be achieved when they issue men with female birth certificates.

They will either have to take away mens right to female id, or open the GRC register. I cant see another option?

How would you annul GRCs without repealing the GRA? It doesn't make sense.

There are lots of existing laws still on the statute book that aren't enforced. Actually removing a law is a huge undertaking because, as demonstrated here, there are all too often unknown unknowns involved in abolishing them. I'm speculating here, but I suspect it would be easier to amend the GRA to abolish GRCs than to remove the GRA completely. But I'm not a lawyer, and if anyone with legal experience would care to comment I'd welcome the input.

Agree the same can be said about issuing GRCs in the first place. One of the reasons I think the whole GRC idea was batshit.