The Church of England needs our help apparently!

[MassiveWordSalad]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9e23jlwdko.amp

Fucking hell. Is there anyone we can suggest that will turn around this shitshow of a misogynist institution?

If they are smart, they will pick someone from a place where Anglicanism is actually thriving, which really means one of the African bishops. The African, and other non-western diocese increasingly feel as if they are being ruled from afar by people who barely have any interest in Christianity anyway, which is bad for the Anglican Communion worldwide. And even in the UK immigrants are more and more the backbone of parishes.

The other issues is that more and more domestic bishops seem to believe the way forward is increasing middle management while eviscerating parishes. Welby was the epitome of that sort of corporate management approach.

The Church of England will hardly exist in 20 years time. The number of churchgoers has been plummeting for the past 50 years and the remaining congregations are dominated by old people.

Totally agree with TempestTost. You have to ask yourself why a diocese needs to employ so many non clergy.
I live in a small village about 10 miles from a large cathedral. The amount of bureaucracy involved at the higher levels that does nothing to promote Christianity or even support local communities is a constant source of cognitive dissonance for me

Irreligious person here. I don't see the point of this when that twonk the Archbishop of York will get it anyway.

I think it's time we dump the CofE altogether. It's plainly an unsafe institution and more and more people don't bother with it anyway, unless it's to send their child to primary school. Chuck them out of Parliament, turn Lambeth Palace into a museum and community space, and get rid.

Well if consulting with their imaginary friend living in the clouds gave them a pedophile apologist, what ya got left?

@TempestTost - would the African bishops you're thinking of be compatible with British norms (and laws) re equality of sex and sexual orientation?

The AoC shouldn't be both the administrative and pastoral leader of the C of E. There should be some decentralisation of leadership if the Anglican Communion is going to stay together.

A lot of people in this country, let alone the rest of the world, don't accept women priests or bishops, let alone a female AoC. Add in the issue of homosexuality and it's hard to believe there's anyone that could be a unifying figure for all.

It's a bit ridiculous that in 2025 the Anglican Church is still run from Canterbury. As far as I'm aware (lifelong and practising Anglican) there isn't a process to go outside the UK bishops for the AoC appointment. I know African bishops like Sentamu come to the UK, but that's not really a great way to work it.

They should set up an administrative HQ that deals with appointments of clergy, salaries & pensions, manages the historic buildings etc. Then have regional leaders who meet together and decide on a head from among them, maybe for a fixed term, to lead on doctrine and other issues.

Being the leader of the worldwide Anglican communion and also of the English 'established church' definitely seem incompatible. Getting rid of the latter completely anachronistic function is obviously overdue.

I am not sure who would actually want to be Archbishop of Canterbury right now. It seems like an impossible job. Welby did a lot to improve safeguarding within the CofE, but still took all the flak over the Smyth case (not that he wasn't at fault, but it would be nice to see the blame properly distributed and for the police and other institutions to take their share of it). Cottrell has also been facing calls to resign over a different abuse case. Whoever gets the job will have to carry on walking the ever more difficult tightrope of holding together the various factions within the Church, attempt to balance the books when congregations are dying off, and so on.

So the next Archbishop will be Bishop McBishopFace?

Half the existing CoE congregations are not compatible with British laws on equality and sexual orientation.

Yes. I really can't see how the CoE can salvage its credibility among the global Anglican Communion whilst not falling foul of UK law. The two are at odds. It's going to be a poisoned chalice for whoever takes it up, no matter their theology.

Even without the issue of the Anglican Communion, most of the more conservative Anglicans have left the Church by this point. The older ones are dying out and the younger ones are becoming Continuing Anglican / Catholic / evangelical. Meanwhile the liberal Anglicans seem to have more visibility in the clergy than actual bums-in-pews congregational presence. I don't get the impression their brand of Christianity really strikes a chord with that many people - neither the traditionalists nor even the political progressives.

Maybe the CoE won't completely disintegrate on the next Archbishop's watch, but who would take that risk?

Ha ha! That's how I read it too - I'm sure this morning's headline said the public were being asked to suggest names 😁

I don't see the point of this when that twonk the Archbishop of York will get it anyway.

Why do you think that? The Archbishop of York doesn't often get to be Archbishop of Canterbury; it hasn't happened for 50 years, and the current one has a bit of an issue too, doesn't he, so I can't see him being seriously nominated.

It will almost certainly be a Bishop. It could be a woman, some of the current female Bishops have been in post for 10 years now.

It's not just the C of E that has a problem. My Mum and Dad were stalwarts of the local Church of Scotland church (Presbyterian). Congregations in their area are dwindling and ageing. Clearly organised religion isn't hitting the spot for the majority of the population. It leaves a gap, though, in the area of emotional and practical support at difficult times, providing opportunities for people to get to know each other, etc etc.

My guess is that Sarah Mullally will get it. She was President of the Royal College of Nursing so has already had experience of leading an institution.

It will be the Bishop of Dover. Ticks all the boxes. Will that be enough to hold it together for another few years? Who knows.

But my heart bleeds for the Church of England, the Church I loved and served for most of my life. In the words of the Bible ‘ they have whored after false Gods’, and I don’t think the hierarchy ( how appropriate) has yet recanted.

@Aaron95 Half the existing CoE congregations are not compatible with British laws on equality and sexual orientation.

Yes, but they don't hold a (supposedly) important position in the British state and have an automatic seat in the House of Lords.
Of course not everyone in the HoL or HoC agrees with basic equality but appointing someone with regressive views doesn't sound like a good idea if the CofE wants to retain its place here.

It is a problem... I think it's reckoned less than half the U.K. population now believe in god, let alone any particular flavour of organised religion. But the societal gap is there. I don't miss god but I do miss the church I was raised in (URC in my case though never overly wedded to a particular denomination).

I'd like to see Guli Francis-Dehqani as the next Archbishop of Cantebury 🙏

In the words of the Bible ‘ they have whored after false Gods’, and I don’t think the hierarchy ( how appropriate) has yet recanted.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen what do you mean?

The average CofE congregation are totally accepting of same sex marriage, from what I can see.
About 50% of the clergy, or more, are.

It’s the bigger, more successful churches that aren’t, in my experience. It’s troubling, because they do better for funding and grow their own future leaders.

The old, boring parishes that struggle to survive that are more liberal. But people don’t attend them because of assumptions made about them based on bigger churches.

It’s frustrating- the modern churches with young leaders and great worship bands have the old fashioned attitudes. The old fashioned churches with the old fashioned members are open minded and liberal.

Average weekly attendance at Church of England services rose by almost five per cent in 2023 - the third year of consecutive growth: www.churchofengland.org/media/press-releases/weekly-church-attendance-five-cent-third-year-consecutive-growth

I think a lot of people are looking for something more, and some are finding it at church. Faith in something bigger, and the right church community, can be a balm for people navigating modern day stresses...

It's a shame that those at the top have rather lost touch with what's going on in the parishes.

Sooty?

The third year of growth since the pandemic; the piece says "total attendance is still below 2019 levels" ...returning to pre pandemic levels isn't quite as impressive as you tried to make it sound.