Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's (actually unisex) toilets

13 replies

GCAcademic · 05/02/2025 15:22

Please help me get my head around this.

If an organisation's policy basically allows employees to self-identify into the facilities that they feel appropriate to their gender, that makes all toilets unisex, right?

So shouldn't all the toilets, not just the ones that the organisation has designated gender neutral, be fully enclosed, self-contained facilities to meet the legal stipulations? Or am I missing something here?

OP posts:
NPET · 05/02/2025 15:40

Yes they should be but they won't be because it's existing female + male toilets which are being "adapted" (=re-named).
So what ALWAYS seems to happen is that you end up with "cubicles" (which everybody uses and gives us no privacy from men) and "urinals + cubicles" which men use and we COULD in theory use but don't because (a) we - or most of us - don't like the idea of seeing men spraying urinals, and (b) know that it'll be 98% men in there anyway.

So one sex loses out all round.

And that sex isn't male!

GCAcademic · 05/02/2025 16:03

Thank you. I'm trying to get my head around whether these toilets are in breach of the legal requirements for fully enclosed cubicles. Would one be able to make the case that they're illegal and that the organisation needs to adapt them properly to meet the government's requirements, given that the male and the female toilets are now each open to both sexes?

OP posts:
ConstructionTime · 05/02/2025 16:11

Some resources here:
https://sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/the-workplace/

Also search this forum with keywords, because there were a couple of threads about this with good resources which might be useful for your case.

Meanacademic · 06/02/2025 06:42

My employer has this arrangement and yes, the logical conclusion of a policy that allows everyone access to any toilet is that all toilets become unisex. But for some reason, my employer has also spent a lot of money on building fully enclosed unisex toilets. As if they knew that something wasn’t quite right … maybe they got a USAID grant that they had to spend!

Keeptoiletssafe · 06/02/2025 08:44

Toilets that are fully enclosed (whatever they are designated) are less safe.
Rescue times are greatly increased if you can’t see who is in them and needing assistance.

In the Equality Act (2010), people with a disability should be able to have reasonable adjustment. So for people with epilepsy, diabetes, heart conditions, etc which causes them to collapse there should be safe toilets available. Obviously people (whether they have a diagnosed condition or not) go to the toilet when they feel ill so it is a common place people are found who have had strokes and heart attacks. Gaps safe lives.

Fire evacuation times are increased as well when you can’t see if a row of toilets is occupied quickly. Ventilation goes down and the concentration of disease borne particles in the cubicle air goes up. Hygiene is compromised further as mopping then draining urine/vomit/faeces/blood can’t be done as effectively.

The Government’s Document T (2024) for public toilets in shops, venues and offices is the relevant document. However it is for new buildings and retrofits. Unisex toilets are stipulated as fully enclosed and have to be easily opened from the outside and so the door can be made to open outwards. This is precisely because bodies block the door opening. The side effect of this of course is that you are in a private witness-free space and someone can let themselves in. Public toilets when they are privately enclosed have been called rape cubicles for a reason.

I analysed the research into Document T and it was flawed. There has been no impact assessment as far as I can see and certainly none published, on the consequences of removing these safety gaps for anyone having a medical emergency and for VAWG. There is plenty of evidence of incidents happening in enclosed toilets, particularly mixed sex, which includes historical data on disabled toilets as until recently they were the only ones without gaps.

In document T single sex toilet cubicles don’t have a specification on door height so it is up to the employer. Single sex designs can follow ‘universal’ designs (unisex) which are fully enclosed but unisex ones, like you state, should include a sink in the cubicle. If there is enough space for multiple toilets, it is clear in Document T that single sex toilets should be provided, then unisex. Unisex only are for when there is not enough room like in a small cafe.

Shockingly in the last few years the DfE have changed the designs for all secondary school toilets cubicles to have full height doors and partitions. When I questioned them about how this is safe for any pupils having a medical emergency (particularly as this is a common age to have a first seizure and for heart conditions) they said the school and governors should know their cohort (premonitions?!) and provide appropriate designs for them. So these designs can (and I know should) be overridden in schools. Presumably an employer can do that for Document T particularly as 1% of the population have epilepsy, diabetes is on the increase, there are heart attacks and also strokes at an average of 1 every 5 minutes in the UK.

I would suggest to your employer that the single sex toilets stay single sex with the door gaps for safety reasons and to comply with the Equality Act (2010) for sex, disability, age (frailty) and religious reasons. Unisex toilets that are enclosed and self contained - the Universal design - should be monitored regularly (and I think are not as suitable as single sex toilets because they are less safe).

GCAcademic · 06/02/2025 10:46

I would suggest to your employer that the single sex toilets stay single sex with the door gaps for safety reasons and to comply with the Equality Act (2010) for sex, disability, age (frailty) and religious reasons.

That is never going to happen. It's clearly written into the university's policies that men can identify into those women's toilets. There is no way that they are going to row back on that. We now have middle-aged men in sexualised clothing wanting to use a space that young women think is single sex (and quite a lot of these young women are from backgrounds where they are only allowed to be at university if they live at home and don't share private spaces with males).

My employer has this arrangement and yes, the logical conclusion of a policy that allows everyone access to any toilet is that all toilets become unisex. But for some reason, my employer has also spent a lot of money on building fully enclosed unisex toilets. As if they knew that something wasn’t quite right … maybe they got a USAID grant that they had to spend!

Yes, this is exactly what we have in my large building. My problem is the deceit. Some women avoid the gender neutral cubicles because they don't like the piss everywhere. So instead they use what they are led to believe is a female space, but actually isn't, and which has less privacy than the enclosed gender-neutral cubicles.

Perhaps they should be making clearer what the policy is, so that everyone is clear that the women's toilets are unisex, and then female students and staff can make their decision accordingly about which facility to use.

OP posts:
Keeptoiletssafe · 06/02/2025 11:50

@GCAcademic it needs someone to take them to court. Could you ask them to do an impact assessment of their policy to have no single sex spaces for those students you mentioned? FWR have some good diagrams of mixed sex toilets in schools and the intimidation of girls and women by males which illustrate the problems clearly.

This is the next big thing. The safest solution is to have single sex toilets and door gaps. The design that has been universally used around the world for this reason, until very recently. The design changes directly impact everyone at their most vulnerable.

Grammarnut · 06/02/2025 21:43

GCAcademic · 05/02/2025 16:03

Thank you. I'm trying to get my head around whether these toilets are in breach of the legal requirements for fully enclosed cubicles. Would one be able to make the case that they're illegal and that the organisation needs to adapt them properly to meet the government's requirements, given that the male and the female toilets are now each open to both sexes?

Edited

Unisex toilets are not a government requirement. Press for proper designation of male and female toilets, and people with gender dysphoria either use the toilet that matches their sex or a third space is provided.

Skyellaskerry · 07/02/2025 08:36

Keeptoiletssafe · 06/02/2025 08:44

Toilets that are fully enclosed (whatever they are designated) are less safe.
Rescue times are greatly increased if you can’t see who is in them and needing assistance.

In the Equality Act (2010), people with a disability should be able to have reasonable adjustment. So for people with epilepsy, diabetes, heart conditions, etc which causes them to collapse there should be safe toilets available. Obviously people (whether they have a diagnosed condition or not) go to the toilet when they feel ill so it is a common place people are found who have had strokes and heart attacks. Gaps safe lives.

Fire evacuation times are increased as well when you can’t see if a row of toilets is occupied quickly. Ventilation goes down and the concentration of disease borne particles in the cubicle air goes up. Hygiene is compromised further as mopping then draining urine/vomit/faeces/blood can’t be done as effectively.

The Government’s Document T (2024) for public toilets in shops, venues and offices is the relevant document. However it is for new buildings and retrofits. Unisex toilets are stipulated as fully enclosed and have to be easily opened from the outside and so the door can be made to open outwards. This is precisely because bodies block the door opening. The side effect of this of course is that you are in a private witness-free space and someone can let themselves in. Public toilets when they are privately enclosed have been called rape cubicles for a reason.

I analysed the research into Document T and it was flawed. There has been no impact assessment as far as I can see and certainly none published, on the consequences of removing these safety gaps for anyone having a medical emergency and for VAWG. There is plenty of evidence of incidents happening in enclosed toilets, particularly mixed sex, which includes historical data on disabled toilets as until recently they were the only ones without gaps.

In document T single sex toilet cubicles don’t have a specification on door height so it is up to the employer. Single sex designs can follow ‘universal’ designs (unisex) which are fully enclosed but unisex ones, like you state, should include a sink in the cubicle. If there is enough space for multiple toilets, it is clear in Document T that single sex toilets should be provided, then unisex. Unisex only are for when there is not enough room like in a small cafe.

Shockingly in the last few years the DfE have changed the designs for all secondary school toilets cubicles to have full height doors and partitions. When I questioned them about how this is safe for any pupils having a medical emergency (particularly as this is a common age to have a first seizure and for heart conditions) they said the school and governors should know their cohort (premonitions?!) and provide appropriate designs for them. So these designs can (and I know should) be overridden in schools. Presumably an employer can do that for Document T particularly as 1% of the population have epilepsy, diabetes is on the increase, there are heart attacks and also strokes at an average of 1 every 5 minutes in the UK.

I would suggest to your employer that the single sex toilets stay single sex with the door gaps for safety reasons and to comply with the Equality Act (2010) for sex, disability, age (frailty) and religious reasons. Unisex toilets that are enclosed and self contained - the Universal design - should be monitored regularly (and I think are not as suitable as single sex toilets because they are less safe).

Thank you, this is really useful.

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/02/2025 09:29

Skyellaskerry · 07/02/2025 08:36

Thank you, this is really useful.

I am glad it is useful. I worry that some info may get diluted or misinterpreted as I know so much about toilets now and try and condense the info that fits what people need. The legislation/guidance/documents are long and I appear to now know more than the people who jobs it is to know about it! I have no qualifications in building legislation but have done post graduate scientific research in a non related field. Happy to answer anyone’s questions as well as I can.

GCAcademic · 07/02/2025 09:37

Keeptoiletssafe · 06/02/2025 23:19

@GCAcademic Michael Foran has some really good articles that may help you. What about this one?
https://knowingius.org/p/when-are-mixed-sex-toilets-unlawful

Edited

Thank you for this - it looks really useful and just the kind of thing I need. This will be my weekend reading!

OP posts:
Keeptoiletssafe · 07/02/2025 09:48

@GCAcademic Excellent! If you need any specific questions answering just pm me if you want or put them on here. I have correspondence with various government departments.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread