US executive order - relating to gender identity and the armed forces.

[FlowchartRequired]

Apologies if I missed this being discussed.

https://archive.ph/4zC91

"Prioritizing Military Excellence and Readiness
EXECUTIVE ORDER
January 27, 2025"

An extract:

"Recently, however, the Armed Forces have been afflicted with radical gender ideology to appease activists unconcerned with the requirements of military service like physical and mental health, selflessness, and unit cohesion. Longstanding Department of Defense (DoD) policy (DoD Instruction (DoDI) 6130.03) provides that it is the policy of the DoD to ensure that service members are “[f]ree of medical conditions or physical defects that may reasonably be expected to require excessive time lost from duty for necessary treatment or hospitalization.” As a result, many mental and physical health conditions are incompatible with active duty, from conditions that require substantial medication or medical treatment to bipolar and related disorders, eating disorders, suicidality, and prior psychiatric hospitalization.

Consistent with the military mission and longstanding DoD policy, expressing a false “gender identity” divergent from an individual’s sex cannot satisfy the rigorous standards necessary for military service. Beyond the hormonal and surgical medical interventions involved, adoption of a gender identity inconsistent with an individual’s sex conflicts with a soldier’s commitment to an honorable, truthful, and disciplined lifestyle, even in one’s personal life. A man’s assertion that he is a woman, and his requirement that others honor this falsehood, is not consistent with the humility and selflessness required of a service member."

Well i do think it is a bit barking to have equality and diversity in the armed forces, as soldiers are cannon fodder, so how one can send someone in to war and conflict with a psychiatric disorder is well odd.

Did inclusivity stretch to disability, maybe soldiers in wheelchairs.

Not mad on the idea of female soldiers either, may get flamed for that.

This Executive Order seems rational and fair.

I also think this is an interesting and profound point:
Beyond the hormonal and surgical medical interventions involved, adoption of a gender identity inconsistent with an individual’s sex conflicts with a soldier’s commitment to an honorable, truthful, and disciplined lifestyle, even in one’s personal life. A man’s assertion that he is a woman, and his requirement that others honor this falsehood, is not consistent with the humility and selflessness required of a service member. (my bold)

Oh wow, @Snowypeaks 😄

Wonder when the new administration are going to tell us what they REALLY think!

I agree that that is an interesting point,

There is text about pronoun use too:

"Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the United States Government to establish high standards for troop readiness, lethality, cohesion, honesty, humility, uniformity, and integrity. This policy is inconsistent with the medical, surgical, and mental health constraints on individuals with gender dysphoria. This policy is also inconsistent with shifting pronoun usage or use of pronouns that inaccurately reflect an individual’s sex."

And:

"(b) The Secretary shall promptly issue directives for DoD to end invented and identification-based pronoun usage to best achieve the policy outlined in section 2 of this order."

Female soldiers in the US army were told they were even allowed to cover themselves up if undressed in the presence of a TW because that might upset/offend/‘other’ the TW so I have zero sympathy and fucks to give.

this is a direct consequence of the massive overreach by TRAs

Just to check that Hermione, do you mean that they were not even allowed to cover themselves up?

They are certainly not pulling their punches in these Executive Orders.

as an aside it really would not do for Trump and his mates to stick their hand up a woman’s skirt only to discover some dangly bits.

Maybe that is in part is his motivation.

Also i seem to recall some military higher up, admiral level in a military ceremonial skirt.

I do think that role that Admiral Rachel Levine played in throwing children to the alter of trans medicine has clouded my view to a certain degree.

Anyone who can't pass a health test because of their fragile mental health on the basis of their gender identity should be excluded on the same grounds as any other mental health disorder.

If the person cannot cope with correct sex pronouns then they are not robust enough, and do not have a firm enough grip of reality, to be in the armed forces

But I think that this is problematic in the sense it will feed into the notion that trans people can be discriminated against in relation to their gender presentation in the workplace which is something that I think feeds into the 'gender roles' argument. Clearly, unacceptable presentation such as that worn by the teacher in Canada with the fake boobs which is a clear public fetish display should be deemed unacceptable in any workplace.

@Bannedontherun I do not agree that women in the armed forces is problematic. I have a female family members who have been active in the British armed forces so you'll get a flaming from me for your comment about the suitability of females.

@lifeturnsonadime i accept your flame.

Levine isn't a soldier but a physician. Wears uniform.because the medical service he's part of is formally a separate branch of the armed forces, along with the meteorological service.

@GrumpyPanda Every day is a school day ….

@GrumpyPanda I didn't know that either.

Regarding being discriminatory on the grounds of gender preservation, I see this as a "who cares?" situation. Female and male personnel of the same rank wear the same uniform. The women's uniform is differently cut. But they're all meant to be interchangeable. Nobody gets to stand out. There are women's skirt options, presumably for desk jobs or ceremonial occasions, but the basic uniform is the same for everyone. It goes to the paragraph I quoted about humility and selflessness.

I like the selfless and humility thing because it emphasis the lack of in a certain minority

Yes, it has limited impact in a uniformed role, I'm just anticipating counter arguments.

I was in the armed forces myself, you know you could always just disagree rather than flaming people.

"...high standards for...honesty, humility...integrity..."

Excellent

The PP had said they were waiting to be flamed!

I wouldn't have used the word flamed had they not done so.

Bit odd that you're aiming at me not at the sexism towards female members of the armed forces : S

I heard an interview on the radio when Trump first said he would do this last year. Apparently the armed forces are really popular with trans people in America, partly because it gives those living in conservative areas a way to be gender non conforming in a way they are scared to be at home, but also because of the medical treatment they could get for free - hormones, surgery - if they were diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

i can never decide wether i am tail end first wave feminism or second wave. But i am oldish. I just think as did feminist way back that war was for men.

and that if women led the world we would not go around killing each other.

I believe that people should have the freedom to be gender non conforming (within sensible reason - so not the massive fake boob teacher mentioned earlier).

I don't believe in compelling speech or making people go along with the fantasy that humans can actually change sex against their will. I have huge issues with the ethics of 'gender affirming care'.

Even if I was pro the current incarnation of 'gender affirming care' I do wonder if the armed forces is the correct place to be emloyed if you are going through extreme body modification? If there were complications and the soldier (for example) was left with incontinence, would they need to be discharged? What if hormones weren't available on active duty? Would that solder be unable to be deployed?

Just to check that Hermione, do you mean that they were not even allowed to cover themselves up?

It was considered transphobic and othering for the women to shower in a towel etc. I knew about this too. An early peaking moment for me about a decade or so ago.

Getting flamed is not the same as disagreeing.

I think the question of women in the armed forces has a lot of complicated elements, and I base that entirely on my time there. I think it's reductive to dismiss it as sexism right off the bat.

Not surprising but that's another EO becoming a long running court saga - not sure how many it is now but quite a few
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/transgender-members-file-lawsuit-challenging-211752186.html